Ok, time for the media to drop the evacuation non-story.

[watching&waiting]

The fact that Canada allows dual citizenship is one where the weathier people who take advantage of tax loopholes in tax havens can also get dual citizenship and never have to worry about that money being taxed by Canada even when in retirement and living off the proceeds. That is why we will never see the removal of allowing dual citizenship here in Canada.

Along with that type of abuse comes the abuse that we see now where many people who have not set foot in Canada in a decade or so, are now claiming their right to be rescued from Lebanon. There should be a pecking order in taking these people out, and those who have been only in Lebanon for less then a year, should be the first to get out and work our way down the list from there. But of course that is not the way it will be. I personally have little sympathy for those who have been in Lebanon for over a year, and I would be inclined to make them pay normal travel costs for them and their families. Which is what they would have had to pay when returning anyway. It is not like this conflict could not be seen building up, and many should have left long ago. I personally will not travel to any of the middle east countries, even though I would like to see them, but entering a area where conflict is high is not my idea of a place to vacation. Anyone going into places like this should not expect much help when hostilities break out.

Any way, because we do have many Canadian citizens waiting for evacuation we should do what we can with the available transport. If this takes a month then fine let it take a month. I do not think any less of Harper for what he has done so far and I actually think he has done more then I would have expected of him. Let the whiners complain about no air conditioning and water. I wonder just how much A/C and water they would have if they were trapped in the rubble of some destroyed building? These people come from a country where it has always been hot and dry so, is it too much to ask them to bring the necessary water and some food with them on the boats?

I agree that this has gone on way too long and as a news story it has bast its best by date. The world has still gone on and there are many more important things to report and maybe even an end to the conflict maybe?

[Leafless]

Criteria? Simple- In the case of Lebanese or any other Canadian with dual citizenship ' You have six months to consider and choose the country you wish to live in. If you choose a country other than Canada, you will no longer be a citizen of Canada and you will be forced to leave'.

Leafless, that idea is impractical and even crazy.

To start with, would it apply to a child? A child does not choose where to live.

Second, the Canadian government never registers anyone when they leave Canada. It doesn't register anyone leaving to the US. How would you determine dates?

What if the person chooses to give up citizenship in the other country? How is Canada to verify that this in fact is true?

-----

All schemes to forbid dual citizenship are simply impractical and unenforceable. Some people are going to hold several passports and be citizens of different countries. It's a fact of life.

Leafless, you seem obsessed with "control" and "enforcing rules". What's wrong with letting people decide on their own where they want to live and letting them cross borders freely?

August, you list three good reasons why we need to beef up our immigration system.

But then you come back and be critical of me being obsessed with "control" and enforcing rules".

I would have to say to you that is why we have controls and rules in almost any SYSTEM is to weed out the cheats and liars.

[Leafless]

Dear Leafless,

or any other Canadian with dual citizenship ' You have six months to consider and choose the country you wish to live in. If you choose a country other than Canada, you will no longer be a citizen of Canada and you will be forced to leave'.

How about the US? My brother-in-law lives in Victoria BC, and is a lawyer with dual citizenship. He is a great guy, makes a fair bit of money, and I would rather he (and his tax dollars) stayed here. However, due to the nature of his work, he travels a great deal (mostly to the US) and the dual citizenship is a great advantage to him. In this light, there must be some exceptions to the rule of 'one citizenship only'.

I must admit, we could make this an exception in the case of the U.S. simply due to the tremendous business nature of our two adjacent countries and simply because of our historical friendship and closeness.

The U.S. has never let Canada down in a time of need, and perhaps we never had a great need simply because of their presence.

[Michael Hardner]

I would have to say to you that is why we have controls and rules in almost any SYSTEM is to weed out the cheats and liars.

To add: sometimes it's cheaper and more practical to allow cheating than to spend the resources looking for it. This is a fact that's lost on many armchair bureaucrats.

[Leafless]

I would have to say to you that is why we have controls and rules in almost any SYSTEM is to weed out the cheats and liars.

To add: sometimes it's cheaper and more practical to allow cheating than to spend the resources looking for it. This is a fact that's lost on many armchair bureaucrats.

Cheaper???

40-50,000 questionable Lebanese Canadians in Lebanon alone.

Let's get the real statistics first which again is impossible without a real SYSTEM.

[Leafless]

Its all there in black and white on the official Canada website, Canada will help you in emergency situations, such as natural disasters and war - how many people bitched when assistance was given to Cdn tourists in Thailand during the tsunami? Or is it because there is a suspicion that the majority of people needing to be evacuated might be Lebanese that is creating this backlash on the forum?

Census Canada requires you to name a nationality of origin - what were your parents? What is your families Nationality, when you fill out census forms.

No matter how many times it is posted here that other countries have medical services superior to Canada those of you, who have never set a foot outside your own city, never mind your own country, are just not going to get it are you? To believe Canada and the US are the ONLY countries with Medical assistance or doctors and hospitals is very very ignorant of you ............

The other aspect which is a drain on Canadian financial resources is dual citizenship Canadians enjoying the comforts of another country only return to Canada at retirement age for old age pension and or medical attention

No matter how many times it is posted that other countries have "Old Age Pension" and if you have worked and paid taxes in that country as well as Canada you are eligible to collect, you dont get it. Again the ignorance is appalling .......

I can see the reason why you choose not to be educated or do research , IF you educated yourselves you wouldnt be able to carry on these rants. Then what would you post about?

Obviously you are not familiar with the entitlements of a Canadian citizen.

Do you know all the loopholes available to a Canadian citizen...I don't think you do.

http://www.rbcinvestments.com/financial-pl...ing-abroad.html

http://www.sdc.gc.ca/asp/gateway.asp?hr=/e...s/oas.shtml&hs=

http://www.sdc.gc.ca/asp/gateway.asp?hr=/e...wance.shtml&hs=

[jbg]

40,000 Canadian vacationers in Lebanon? I didn't know their beaches, mountains or sightseeing were that thrilling.

[jdobbin]

40,000 Canadian vacationers in Lebanon? I didn't know their beaches, mountains or sightseeing were that thrilling.

Beirut has often been called the "Paris of the Mediterranean." Tourism was one of the largest industries in the city and at the time of the attacks nearly every hotel was filled (although many tourists stay with relatives). Travel agents accounted for at least 20,000 of the people there because they had booked return tickets for the summer. Coincidently, it was about 25,000 Canadians who requested help returning to Canada.

[gerryhatrick]

40,000 Canadian vacationers in Lebanon? I didn't know their beaches, mountains or sightseeing were that thrilling.

It's easily and logically quantifiable that approx. 20,000 of the estimated 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon are vacationing.

I've posted the article demonstrating that twice already.

[Michael Hardner]

The newspaper today said only 7,500 had taken advantage of this service.

L:

Cheaper???

40-50,000 questionable Lebanese Canadians in Lebanon alone.

Let's get the real statistics first which again is impossible without a real SYSTEM.

So you want to build the system in order to get the statistics to justify building the system ?

It seems to me that your system gets its genesis from your disgust at the evacuation of Lebanese Canadians who live in Lebanon, am I correct ? If so, what are the chances that exactly this type of problem will happen again ?

And, yes, these systems cost millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions and sometimes billions to implement.

[Leafless]

The newspaper today said only 7,500 had taken advantage of this service.

L:

Cheaper???

40-50,000 questionable Lebanese Canadians in Lebanon alone.

Let's get the real statistics first which again is impossible without a real SYSTEM.

So you want to build the system in order to get the statistics to justify building the system ?

It seems to me that your system gets its genesis from your disgust at the evacuation of Lebanese Canadians who live in Lebanon, am I correct ? If so, what are the chances that exactly this type of problem will happen again ?

And, yes, these systems cost millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions and sometimes billions to implement.

Our whole immigration system is 'culturally obsessed'.

Take a look at our census numbers in which they allow a number of responses to identify an individuals nationality including the amazing response 'Canadian'.

All basically that is required in the case of immigrants is your birth certificate which tells you the country of birth and THAT is your nationality. All other citizen's born in Canada are CANADIANS.

What I am disgusted at is the SHEER number of CANADIANS in tiny Lebanon ( 2.6 million people) which I consider highly unusual and would question the number of Canadians of other nationalities who are out of Canada at any given time.

I know you will have a hard time understanding the aspect of what this does to Canada as a country concerning locality, responsibility and as a full time not part time Canadian citizen contributing to OUR economy.

A system of this nature would firstly have to disallow dual citizenship as in many cases truly undermines true Canadian identity and full participation as a citizen of Canada.

After this is done I suspect mass (vacations) to other countries would be greatly reduced.

A special card issued to Canadian citizen's on business trips indicating a maximum time permitted out of Canada would greatly control the complexities of keeping track of these business people who would then have to return the card within the expiry date on return to Canada.

I cannot see a system of this nature costing an excessive amount of money especially with the large amount of money recouped by potential vacationeers now spending their money in Canada.

[Kindred]

Although you may be a non-resident, you’re still eligible to receive CPP/QPP and OAS benefits. However, there would be a 25% withholding tax on this and other “passive” income such as annuity payments or pension payments from private plans. Some countries have tax treaties with Canada in which case this tax could be reduced or waived.

So whats your point Leafless? If I have my own private retirement investments in Canada and I declare myself as Ex-Pat the Canadian Govt gets to keep 25% of my investment AFTER growth and you see this as a benefit to the Ex-Pat? I dont follow your reasoning

Your second like states that OAS is ONLY available to people LIVING in Canada .. not Ex-Pats so again the logic of your argument is lost on me. In order to come back to Canada and Repatriate there can and usually is a HUGE tax penality depending on how many years you were overseas and your income ....

IF you dont repatriate you are only allowed to remain in Canada for a certain number of days before the Govt repatriates you on their own and sends you a tax bill ........ During the time you are in Canada you need to carry your own Medical Insurance etc.

Obviously you are not familiar with the entitlements of a Canadian citizen

So what WAS your point?

Ex-Pats dont have access to medical services, OAS unless they repatriate, dont have access to 100% of their own PRIVATE investments, cant own property in Canada ...... and any CPP they collect is based on what they contributed before becoming Ex-Pats so I dont quite get what you are aiming for here with your comment and links .............

[Leafless]

Although you may be a non-resident, you’re still eligible to receive CPP/QPP and OAS benefits. However, there would be a 25% withholding tax on this and other “passive” income such as annuity payments or pension payments from private plans. Some countries have tax treaties with Canada in which case this tax could be reduced or waived.

So whats your point Leafless? If I have my own private retirement investments in Canada and I declare myself as Ex-Pat the Canadian Govt gets to keep 25% of my investment AFTER growth and you see this as a benefit to the Ex-Pat? I dont follow your reasoning

Your second like states that OAS is ONLY available to people LIVING in Canada .. not Ex-Pats so again the logic of your argument is lost on me. In order to come back to Canada and Repatriate there can and usually is a HUGE tax penality depending on how many years you were overseas and your income ....

IF you dont repatriate you are only allowed to remain in Canada for a certain number of days before the Govt repatriates you on their own and sends you a tax bill ........ During the time you are in Canada you need to carry your own Medical Insurance etc.

Obviously you are not familiar with the entitlements of a Canadian citizen

So what WAS your point?

Ex-Pats dont have access to medical services, OAS unless they repatriate, dont have access to 100% of their own PRIVATE investments, cant own property in Canada ...... and any CPP they collect is based on what they contributed before becoming Ex-Pats so I dont quite get what you are aiming for here with your comment and links .............

My point is simple.

I am simply illustrating that a Canadian can leave Canada at a relative early age become a citizen of another country, live and contribute in that country and return to Canada and receive a pension and free medical after a short waiting period and in all probability if required receive social assistance housing etc.

This also is applicable to immigrants who come here at a fairly early age, make minimum contributions, leave to return to their country of origin and return in later years to a pension, free medical and social assistance.

If I have my own private retirement investments in Canada and I declare myself as Ex-Pat the Canadian Govt gets to keep 25% of my investment AFTER growth and you see this as a benefit to the Ex-Pat? I don't follow your reasoning.

Depending on conditions this still could be very profitable to you but what do you really expect in this example anyways ---no penalty???

"Your second like states that OAS is ONLY available to people LIVING in Canada .. "

OAS is available to Canadians living outside the country if you made initial minimum contributions.

"IF you dont repatriate you are only allowed to remain in Canada for a certain number of days before the Govt repatriates you on their own and sends you a tax bill ........ During the time you are in Canada you need to carry your own Medical Insurance etc."

So What! What exactly are you looking for?? Free room and board for whenever you feel like it??

"Ex-Pats dont have access to medical services, OAS unless they repatriate, dont have access to 100% of their own PRIVATE investments, cant own property in Canada ...... and any CPP they collect is based on what they contributed before becoming Ex-Pats so I dont quite get what you are aiming for here with your comment and links ".............

Your asking and answering your own questions.

You should be grateful just for the opportunity to return to Canada and still be eligible to many benefits providing you meet minimum qualifications.

[gerryhatrick]

What I am disgusted at is the SHEER number of CANADIANS in tiny Lebanon ( 2.6 million people) which I consider highly unusual and would question the number of Canadians of other nationalities who are out of Canada at any given time.

Lebanon has 4 million people. You can't even get that right.

Of the 40,000 Canadians estimated to be in Lebanon, about 20,000 are residents of Canada on vacation.

It is not unusual at all, given that we have approx. 200,000 Canadians of Lebanese origin (or born of Lebanese immigrants) in Canada and this summer is considered to be the first time Lebanon has been secure and stable, so many are returning for the first time in many years for a visit/vacation.

Kindly stop assuming that these are not real Canadians or deserving Canadians or Canadian residents or otherwise.

Thankyou.

[Leafless]

I inadvertenly quoted 1983 fiqures that were for some reason near the top of my search page. Both 'The World Fact Book' and 'Wikipedia estimates Lebanon's population at 3,874,050. But from my perspective the numbers were not all that important as the emphasis on Lebanon being a tiny country.

Your 200,000 Lebanese is not a Stats.Can official fiqure.

What I am saying is that 40-50,000 'Canadians'in Lebanon is reason for concern and that I support eliminating dual citizenship not only for reason's relating in Lebanon's case but concerning especially other ethnic Canadians regarding Canadian loyality to ones country and fully supporting the Canadian economy as well as the 'security issue'.

[Kindred]

Lets pass a law that once you become Canadian you can never ever leave the country again and force every Canadian working overseas to come home and collect those pensions and/or welfare and that way no one can question their loyalty again, not ever .......

in 2001 there were 1.17 MILLION CANADIAN BORN Canadians living and working overseas ... lets force them ALL to come home, now where will we get housing for them? Never mind jobs.

In July 2003 the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD)launched a data collection exercise in collaboration with national statistical offices of OECD members to obtain statistics on their foreign-born population, by country of birthand educational attainment.

The data were obtained in most cases from censuses takenaround 2000. The database makes it possible to provide, for the first time, acomprehensive picture of the foreign-born population for most OECD countries in recent decades.

According to this data, there were 1.17 million Canadian expatriates residing in other OECD member countries in 2001, equal to 4% of the total census population inCanada (OECD, 2005). Nevertheless, this number only includes the Canada-born population residing in OECD member countries.

Thats one helluva lot of people who you seem to think should have their Canadian citizenship revoked, even though they were BORN here .........

[Leafless]

Lets pass a law that once you become Canadian you can never ever leave the country again and force every Canadian working overseas to come home and collect those pensions and/or welfare and that way no one can question their loyalty again, not ever .......

in 2001 there were 1.17 MILLION CANADIAN BORN Canadians living and working overseas ... lets force them ALL to come home, now where will we get housing for them? Never mind jobs.

In July 2003 the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD)launched a data collection exercise in collaboration with national statistical offices of OECD members to obtain statistics on their foreign-born population, by country of birthand educational attainment.

The data were obtained in most cases from censuses takenaround 2000. The database makes it possible to provide, for the first time, acomprehensive picture of the foreign-born population for most OECD countries in recent decades.

According to this data, there were 1.17 million Canadian expatriates residing in other OECD member countries in 2001, equal to 4% of the total census population inCanada (OECD, 2005). Nevertheless, this number only includes the Canada-born population residing in OECD member countries.

Thats one helluva lot of people who you seem to think should have their Canadian citizenship revoked, even though they were BORN here .........

What's that!

Here we are bringing in hundreds of thousands of immigrants to work in Canada 'because of a shortage of skills' due to what?

(a) Declining birthrate?

( Or masses of Canadians leaving Canada to work in and reside in other countries?

Either way looks like Canada as 'gone to hell in a hand basket.'

The think tanks must think there are a lot of unfilled jobs in Canada or maybe ones that simply DON'T PAY.