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Doom and Gloom forecast for Canada


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Its apparent from a lot of posts that people are still not aware of the difference between "immigrant" and "refugee".

Immigrants do not come to Canada unless they can prove they have sufficient financial resources to support themselves for X number of years and are prevented from accessing Welfare etc.

They also have to have skills that are on a "skill shortage" list or are starting a business in Canada.

The only exception is "family class immigration" and the family sponsoring the immigrant has to prove they can support the immigrant and that he/she will not access Welfare etc for X number of years.

Most of the posts here seem to refer to "refugees" and not "immigrants", as does the original quote that started the thread.

Refugees most often come from Refugee camps which can be pretty horrendous places, crime ridden, no formal education and a great number of them have spent their entire lives in them, where survival meant being tougher than the other guy. The socialization of children raised in Refugee camps creates social problems that are often transferred to their host countries -

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Ontario has about 200,000 people on welfare. Wouldn't it make sense to ship you them instead?

We'll pay the train fare.

How many of them are recent immigrants?

Don't know. That's not my point. My point is if you need people - well hey, we got `em. Wouldn't it make more sense to train them up to whatever it is you need them for rather than bringing in tens of thousands of illiterate third world types?

Not that a big chunk of those on welfare aren't already illiterate third world types, but I'm not sure how that would be worse than what you're already gonna get.

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What is with you people on this forum! In a country that claims a multicultural heritage I am hearing a hell of a lot of racist like commentary. The more I hear from you people in central and eastern Canada the more I want to distance myself for you guys.

You just sit there in your little prairie city and admire how multicultural Canada is. You'll have second thoughts when that "multicultural heritage" starts showing up in your neighbourhood and taking it over.

You don't want some low life from another country to come here and bust their butts for minimum wage to make a better life for themselves. Instead you want to keep Canada for Canadians! Good Lord you people deserve to keep this nation all to yourselves!

I wish.

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Its apparent from a lot of posts that people are still not aware of the difference between "immigrant" and "refugee".

Immigrants do not come to Canada unless they can prove they have sufficient financial resources to support themselves for X number of years and are prevented from accessing Welfare etc.

That's not actually true, but never mind.

They also have to have skills that are on a "skill shortage" list or are starting a business in Canada.
Which is years out of date by the time it's put in place, but never mind, we need all the taxi drivers and security guards we can get, right?
The only exception is "family class immigration" and the family sponsoring the immigrant has to prove they can support the immigrant and that he/she will not access Welfare etc for X number of years.

That's not actually true, but never mind.

Most of the posts here seem to refer to "refugees" and not "immigrants", as does the original quote that started the thread.

That's not true either, but never mind.

Refugees most often come from Refugee camps which can be pretty horrendous places, crime ridden, no formal education and a great number of them have spent their entire lives in them, where survival meant being tougher than the other guy.

Or they just get off a plane from Paris because they heard we have better welfare.

Maybe you might uh, actually explore the rules, regulations and realities of Canadian immigration before you let your indignation stress you out too much.

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Don't know. That's not my point. My point is if you need people - well hey, we got `em. Wouldn't it make more sense to train them up to whatever it is you need them for rather than bringing in tens of thousands of illiterate third world types?

Not that a big chunk of those on welfare aren't already ignorant third world types, but I'm not sure how that would be worse than what you're already gonna get.

Your point throughout this posting that immigrants have been responsible for crime and pollution amongst other sorts of ills. Surely, you can produce some numbers how many immigrants are on social assistance. And what sort of assistance they are on.

And are you referring to refugees or immigrants? No immigrants qualify if they cannot speak French or English.

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What is with you people on this forum! In a country that claims a multicultural heritage I am hearing a hell of a lot of racist like commentary. The more I hear from you people in central and eastern Canada the more I want to distance myself for you guys.

You just sit there in your little prairie city and admire how multicultural Canada is. You'll have second thoughts when that "multicultural heritage" starts showing up in your neighbourhood and taking it over.

You don't want some low life from another country to come here and bust their butts for minimum wage to make a better life for themselves. Instead you want to keep Canada for Canadians! Good Lord you people deserve to keep this nation all to yourselves!

I wish.

My little praire city? I live about 3kms from a town with about ten houses and no business's in it. I choose to live away from the city life. You chosse to live in it. You can complain about yours if you like but I am fine with mine! If you don't like the city excercise your options and leave. If you don't like the freedom of people to move around North Korea seems to have a government just for you. Why does everybody have to agree with you or be the same as you? Are you afraid of people?

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Maybe you might uh, actually explore the rules, regulations and realities of Canadian immigration before you let your indignation stress you out too much.

Damn you would think that after working for an agency providing settlement services, ESL classes, and other assistance to Immigrants, and refugees that I would know the rules, well bloody hell ........ :blink: How stupid of me ......... :blink:

In order to come to Canada as a skilled worker, you must have the necessary skills and experience. Skilled workers are selected for their ability to establish themselves successfully in Canada and contribute to the Canadian economy. Successful applicants become permanent residents of Canada.

Skilled workers have education, work experience, knowledge of English or French and other abilities that will help them to establish themselves successfully as permanent residents in Canada

If you have experience managing a business and you have enough money to invest in a business in Canada, you may qualify as a business immigrant.

There are three categories, or classes of business immigrants:

investors

entrepreneurs

self-employed persons

Each class has its own eligibility criteria, application procedure, and rules and conditions.

The Business Immigration Program seeks to attract experienced business people to Canada who will support the development of a strong and prosperous Canadian economy.

Business immigrants are expected to make a $400,000 investment or to own and manage businesses in Canada.

Canada has three classes of business immigrants, each with separate eligibility criteria: investors, entrepreneurs and self-employed persons. Each application can be made for only one class and once the application is submitted, the class cannot be changed.....

Business immigrants are selected based on their ability to become economically established in Canada

If you have a close family member who is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada, your relative may be able to sponsor you to come to Canada. First your relative must apply to sponsor you.

Your relative must agree to support you during the sponsorship period. A sponsorship can last from three to ten years, depending on your relationship to the sponsor. Once the sponsorship application is assessed, then you can apply to become a permanent resident of Canada.

Provincial Nominee Program for Immigrants

Employers may also apply to the PN Program to nominate individuals already working in Alberta, under a Temporary Foreign Worker Authorization.

The employer's application under the PNP will be considered where the position:

cannot be filled by a Canadian resident

is for permanent, full-time employment in Alberta

meets provincial employment and wage standards

is offered to an individual who meets the required qualifications, and

does not conflict with existing collective bargaining agreements

Employee candidates may be considered for PN Program nomination if:

they are recruited by a pre-approved Alberta employer, and,

they have a valid job offer

Successful PNP candidates nominated by the Government of Alberta will be required to meet all Federal statutory requirements regarding health, criminal and security checks before an immigration visa is issued.

Spousal Immigrant : When you sponsor a relative or family member to become a permanent resident of Canada, you must promise to support that person and their accompanying family members for a period of three to 10 years, depending on their age and relationship to you.

This unconditional promise of support comes in the form of an Undertaking with the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. You must also sign a Sponsorship Agreement with the person you are sponsoring and all accompanying family members that outlines your commitment to support them and their commitment to make every effort to be self-supporting. Dependent children under the age of 22 do not have to sign the Sponsorship Agreement.

You must provide financial support for the relatives or family members you are sponsoring depending on their age and relationship to you. If you are sponsoring:

your spouse, common-law partner or conjugal partner, you must provide financial support for three years from the date that person became a permanent resident;

your, or your spouse’s, common-law or conjugal partner’s dependent child who is less than 22 years of age, you must provide financial support r 10 years from the date that person became a permanent resident or until the child turns 25 years of age, whichever comes first;

your, or your spouse’s, common-law or conjugal partner’s dependent child who is 22 years of age or older, you must provide financial support for three years from the date that person became a permanent resident; or

any other person not mentioned above, you must provide financial support for 10 years from the date that person became a permanent resident.

A government-sponsored refugee is usually someone who is already living in a refugee camp or living in fear in their own country and has been referred to Canada through the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. That means Canadian officials get to choose who gets in under this class. Once they are accepted by Canada, they are provided assistance to land in the country, get income assistance for a year and other services to help them adjust and integrate. Under the same class are privately-sponsored refugees where a church or organization agrees to provide all the basic necessities and settlement assistance for up to three years.
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Don't know. That's not my point. My point is if you need people - well hey, we got `em. Wouldn't it make more sense to train them up to whatever it is you need them for rather than bringing in tens of thousands of illiterate third world types?

Not that a big chunk of those on welfare aren't already ignorant third world types, but I'm not sure how that would be worse than what you're already gonna get.

Your point throughout this posting that immigrants have been responsible for crime and pollution amongst other sorts of ills. Surely, you can produce some numbers how many immigrants are on social assistance. And what sort of assistance they are on.

Unfortunately, such statistics are not kept, or if they're kept, are not easily accessible.

And are you referring to refugees or immigrants? No immigrants qualify if they cannot speak French or English.

Once again, you are quite, quite mistaken.

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My little praire city? I live about 3kms from a town with about ten houses and no business's in it. I choose to live away from the city life. You chosse to live in it. You can complain about yours if you like but I am fine with mine!

You're fine with yours but saying we need more and more immigration knowing those immigrants are coming to live with me not you. Here's the deal. We'll bring in a hundred immigrants from Somalia specifically to live with you and your little town. You'll have to feed and clothe and house them, btw.

After a year of living with them you come back here and tell us we should continue to bring in more immigrants.

Deal?

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Unfortunately, such statistics are not kept, or if they're kept, are not easily accessible.

Once again, you are quite, quite mistaken.

Prove it. Don't tell me what you personally think. Show it to me. Don't say there are no stats. Show me why your point of view is correct.

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That's not actually true, but never mind

Argus what is your experience with Immigration ? Do you work for them? Or with them?

I used to work in a job dominated by immigrants. And until recently I lived in a political riding which contained the highest number of Muslims in Canada. It was in a fairly nice little rental subdivision which unfortunately was across the street from a large public housing project. However, over the years, the public housing project began to fill up with immigrants and refugees, and became home to the city's most notiorious street gang. Also, after living in an apartment for some years the landlord made a deal with the city to take in refugees, which the city would pay for.

The first thing which went was the curtains in the lobby, repeatedy stolen so the landlord decided to no longer replace them.

Then the flower boxes went because the refugees were using them as a toilet. First they were replaced by plastic flowers. But that made no difference, so they were taken out.

The individual padded seats in each elevator lobby went next because so many were being defaced and stolen.

Then the expensive tile work in the lobby was pulled up after being damaged. The lobby was redone to discourage loitering. The elevators were redone with stainless steel after the interiors were scratched up and defaced with grafiti. One was even set on fire. The front door was replaced with an industrial model after being smashed and broken repeatedly. Closed circuit cameras went in in all public places, especially the garage, where car theft skyrocketed.

Pest control became a problem because the newcomers were throwing their garbage off the balconies or even into the halls.

Muggings, burglaries and swarmings became commonplace. Ice cream kids on the bicycles were banned from coming into the area after being repeatdly robbed. There was a kidnapping in the park, a gang fight in the field, stabbings in local schools. The board of education self-righteously banned parents from transferring their kids out of the local schools because of "white flight". It seems White parents weren't enjoying their children's particpation in multiculturalism, especially since multiculturalism included regular gang fights between Lebanese and Somalian gangs. Police sirens sounded almost every night. Fires were set - a lot, and false alarms were common. The fire department was there a lot. A mini police station was installed in the subdivision itself.

Thankfully, I now own a home in a quiet area where there are no immigrants - and no crime.

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Maybe you might uh, actually explore the rules, regulations and realities of Canadian immigration before you let your indignation stress you out too much.

Damn you would think that after working for an agency providing settlement services, ESL classes, and other assistance to Immigrants, and refugees that I would know the rules, well bloody hell ........ :blink: How stupid of me ......... :blink:

Indeed. But everything I said you got wrong - you got wrong.

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Unfortunately, such statistics are not kept, or if they're kept, are not easily accessible.

Once again, you are quite, quite mistaken.

Prove it. Don't tell me what you personally think. Show it to me. Don't say there are no stats. Show me why your point of view is correct.

Visit any public housing project or slum in Ontario. That ought to clear your head.

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Indeed. But everything I said you got wrong - you got wrong.

Prove it.

Specifically what? You say that most refugees come from "refugee camps" which is nonsensical. Most of them turn up at the border and most aren't even real refugees, but economic migrants. You say that immigrants aren't eligible for welfare, when the Ontario government has complained of the enormous costs of providing them with welfare. I don't think I need to prove anything. I think your statements require proof.

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Visit any public housing project or slum in Ontario. That ought to clear your head

That doesn't tell me anything. Many of us have lived in crappy neighborhoods. What are the numbers?

You sound suspiciously like those multicultural advocates who demand people supply proof that immigrants and visible minorities/ethnic groups are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime - after first ensuring such statistics are not kept.

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Visit any public housing project or slum in Ontario. That ought to clear your head

That doesn't tell me anything. Many of us have lived in crappy neighborhoods. What are the numbers?

A public housing project is not a "crappy neighborhood". Have you ever watched the news from Toronto about shootings? Ever wonder why, though they rarely mention race, the camera shows virtually all the inhabitants are Black? At every shooting? This is the product of immigration: We now have the same kinds of black slums as the Americans do, infested with drugs and crime.

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My little praire city? I live about 3kms from a town with about ten houses and no business's in it. I choose to live away from the city life. You chosse to live in it. You can complain about yours if you like but I am fine with mine!

You're fine with yours but saying we need more and more immigration knowing those immigrants are coming to live with me not you. Here's the deal. We'll bring in a hundred immigrants from Somalia specifically to live with you and your little town. You'll have to feed and clothe and house them, btw.

After a year of living with them you come back here and tell us we should continue to bring in more immigrants.

Deal?

So you want to force people to live where you want them to live? Great idea! Lets take that a few steps further, since the government can now tell people where to live, those that employ you are able to do the same thing. You could very well find yourself in Somalia because some corporation can use the labour pool there at about 10 cents an hour.

With all due respect, I am not in favor of the nanny welfare state. The government handing out tax dollars doesn't really promote the individual incentive to accomplish anything for personal benefit. The entire question about immigration does require a rethink, that much I will agree with you on. But having the government tell people where to live is a no-no.

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Specifically what? You say that most refugees come from "refugee camps" which is nonsensical. Most of them turn up at the border and most aren't even real refugees, but economic migrants. You say that immigrants aren't eligible for welfare, when the Ontario government has complained of the enormous costs of providing them with welfare. I don't think I need to prove anything. I think your statements require proof.

I never said anything of the sort.

I said that the Ontario government has within its constitutional rights, the abillity to facilitate immigration. I asked you what the Ontario government was doing to bring immigrants to areas where communities really need them. You didn't answer that question.

I asked you to tell me the numbers of immigrants or refugees on Social Assistance. You didn't answer that question either.

So tell me the numbers.

If you don't have the numbers, it tells me that you are letting your personall experiences colour your entire viewpoint.

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That doesn't tell me anything. Many of us have lived in crappy neighborhoods. What are the numbers?

A public housing project is not a "crappy neighborhood". Have you ever watched the news from Toronto about shootings? Ever wonder why, though they rarely mention race, the camera shows virtually all the inhabitants are Black? At every shooting? This is the product of immigration: We now have the same kinds of black slums as the Americans do, infested with drugs and crime.

So what has the Ontario government done to faciltate immigrants into the province? I keep asking again and again.

You tell me I'm wrong but I haven't heard why you're right on immigration.

Why is Toronto's experience in isolation the experience that happens all over the country?

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That doesn't tell me anything. Many of us have lived in crappy neighborhoods. What are the numbers?

You sound suspiciously like those multicultural advocates who demand people supply proof that immigrants and visible minorities/ethnic groups are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime - after first ensuring such statistics are not kept.

You accuse me of being an advocate? What next? A liberal?

I haven't called you a racist. I am asking for numbers that support your argument. You say those numbers are kept secret.

Prove that they are kept secret. Who says they are kept secret? Which government? Which private business group? What think tank?

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My little praire city? I live about 3kms from a town with about ten houses and no business's in it. I choose to live away from the city life. You chosse to live in it. You can complain about yours if you like but I am fine with mine!

You're fine with yours but saying we need more and more immigration knowing those immigrants are coming to live with me not you. Here's the deal. We'll bring in a hundred immigrants from Somalia specifically to live with you and your little town. You'll have to feed and clothe and house them, btw.

After a year of living with them you come back here and tell us we should continue to bring in more immigrants.

Deal?

So you want to force people to live where you want them to live? Great idea! Lets take that a few steps further, since the government can now tell people where to live, those that employ you are able to do the same thing. You could very well find yourself in Somalia because some corporation can use the labour pool there at about 10 cents an hour.

With all due respect, I am not in favor of the nanny welfare state. The government handing out tax dollars doesn't really promote the individual incentive to accomplish anything for personal benefit. The entire question about immigration does require a rethink, that much I will agree with you on. But having the government tell people where to live is a no-no.

jdobbin (a praire dweller) original post quotes "My little praire city? I live about 3kms from a town with about ten houses and no business's in it. I choose to live away from the city life. You chosse to live in it. You can complain about yours if you like but I am fine with mine!"

So jdobbin thinks he's smart enough to escape the pitfalls of Canada's rotten immigration system while actually supporting it, forgets it is the big cities that keep rural Canada alive.

In other words if 'big cities go down then rural Canada goes down'. Your part of the the problem of the decay of Canada whether you think so or not.

And J.fortin (a praire dweller) must be spaced out if he says he is living in Alberta who is facing current major labour shortages makes this amazing statement: "The entire question about immigration does require a rethink, that much I will agree with you on. But having the government tell people where to live is a no-no."

And to think Mr. Harper ( a former praire dweller) is running the country, hopefully he doesn't think along the lines of these two.

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