Canadian Taxpayers Federation

[gerryhatrick]

Partisan Canadian Taxpayers Federation proves it is not interested in truth

Friday, 02 June 2006

Is it a surprise to anyone that the Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF) was wrong when it accused Manitoba Health of wasting money on botox and tummey tucks?

snip

The most incredible thing is that after the media explained to The CTF that the botox and tummy tucks were related to real health issues requiring necessary medical treatment (MS and chronic stomach infections) and not vanity procedures, they STILL stuck to their guns! “These types of services do not fall within public expectations” said the Manitoba director of the CTF Adrienne Batra. Huh? You're told that the procedures are medically necessary and you turn around and defend your “teddie award”? Tell that to the people with MS and stomach infections Adrienne.

Link: http://allpoliticsnow.com/content/view/24/1/

I never realized that organization was political. I'm amazed that with multiple offices and directors across the nation they wouldn't even have the brains to make one phone call to confirm a story that they HAD to realize would make waves.

Their "teddies" have been lapped up by the media for years now, so they should have thought about a little due dilligence maybe.

[gerryhatrick]

Partisan Canadian Taxpayers Federation proves it is not interested in truth

Friday, 02 June 2006

Is it a surprise to anyone that the Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF) was wrong when it accused Manitoba Health of wasting money on botox and tummey tucks?

snip

The most incredible thing is that after the media explained to The CTF that the botox and tummy tucks were related to real health issues requiring necessary medical treatment (MS and chronic stomach infections) and not vanity procedures, they STILL stuck to their guns! “These types of services do not fall within public expectations” said the Manitoba director of the CTF Adrienne Batra. Huh? You're told that the procedures are medically necessary and you turn around and defend your “teddie award”? Tell that to the people with MS and stomach infections Adrienne.

Link: http://allpoliticsnow.com/content/view/24/1/

I never realized that organization was political. I'm amazed that with multiple offices and directors across the nation they wouldn't even have the brains to make one phone call to confirm a story that they HAD to realize would make waves.

Their "teddies" have been lapped up by the media for years now, so they should have thought about a little due dilligence maybe.

Just saw this organization cited in the media again.

[BHS]

Um, at what point are you going to expose the partisan angle to this story?

[Hicksey]

Um, at what point are you going to expose the partisan angle to this story?

I think its so plain that you would have to try to overlook it to not see it.

Aside from that ...

Don't most people ignore facts that do not serve their purpose when making an argument unless they are forced to face them? Its the nature of the game. Its also why we play the game instead of just declaring a winner.

[BubberMiley]

Don't most people ignore facts that do not serve their purpose when making an argument unless they are forced to face them?

Just dishonest people.

[Hicksey]

Don't most people ignore facts that do not serve their purpose when making an argument unless they are forced to face them?

Just dishonest people.

Sure, take that stab. But you did understand my point I'm sure.

How many people will make a point that goes against their position in debate? Don't they wait to see if their opponent brings it up first before dealing with it?

Sure, the more noble position is to expand every point but most people do not want to run the risk of losing a debate. Listen to a debate. The only time a participant will bring up points that may hurt their argument is if they know it hurts them more for it to be heard first from their opponent and to put the onus of disproving your explanation on them.

[geoffrey]

Uh the CTF has been against lots of CPC ideas, lots of Liberal ideas, and I'm pretty sure they are just totally opposed to the NDP.

How are they pro any party, I don't know. If anything, they are against all parties and instead just a defender of the common tax payer concerned about where their money goes.

[BubberMiley]

How are they pro any party, I don't know. If anything, they are against all parties and instead just a defender of the common tax payer concerned about where their money goes.

They only defend the taxpayers who don't want to pay any taxes.

[Argus]

How are they pro any party, I don't know. If anything, they are against all parties and instead just a defender of the common tax payer concerned about where their money goes.

They only defend the taxpayers who don't want to pay any taxes.

They defend taxpayers who want government to be as efficient, effective, and honest as possible so as to avoid wasting the taxpayers' money.

[BubberMiley]

They defend taxpayers who want government to be as efficient, effective, and honest as possible so as to avoid wasting the taxpayers' money.

But they often use dishonest arguments because they're more effective.

[BHS]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Bubber's take on taxes is like a suicide bomber's take on death - he's for it, no matter what shape it takes. You can't make an effective economics argument against someone with zero self-interest, any more than you can physically threaten a guy who's already got the C4 strapped to his chest and the button in his hand.

[BubberMiley]

That's kind of funny, but not really true. More taxes isn't necessarily good taxes, and I think we are taxed around the maximum threshold as it is. I just recognize that taxes promote the economy with the services they provide: primarily infrastructure, education, and social stability. I think these things ultimately more than pay for themselves in economic return, so it's all good.

[gerryhatrick]

They defend taxpayers who want government to be as efficient, effective, and honest as possible so as to avoid wasting the taxpayers' money.

But they often use dishonest arguments because they're more effective.

Exactly. The CTF has no credibility.

From the "million dollar toilet" to this balls-up with their teddie awards, they've been arrogant and dishonest.

They're farrightwing roots are showing.

[geoffrey]

Sorry gerry, for a second I thought our government needed to be held to account by something other than the media. My mistake for not putting my full trust in CBC, Global and CTV that sit in press conferences and digest your news dinner for you.

Next time I won't support accountability, how silly of me that was.

[BubberMiley]

But how accountable are you if the one shop people go to fo accountability is partisan?

[Hicksey]

But how accountable are you if the one shop people go to fo accountability is partisan?

Every such organization has an agenda which can be measured either Liberal or Conservative. Partisanship almost cannot be avoided. I think the government's record of mismanagement, half-assed execution of the programs we have now, and poor judgement on how to spend future tax dollars lends to legitimizing their end goal even if the conduct of the CTF in question says otherwise.

The CTF is more Libertarian than Conservative. They operate on a complete distrust of government, rather than a selective distrust like conservatives.

[gerryhatrick]

The CTF is more Libertarian than Conservative. They operate on a complete distrust of government, rather than a selective distrust like conservatives.

The CTF is a bad comedy show. The "teddie awards" are their yearly attempt at har har and they continuously fall flat on their faces. As a result, they can't be taken seriously.

[August1991]

I just recognize that taxes promote the economy with the services they provide: primarily infrastructure, education, and social stability. I think these things ultimately more than pay for themselves in economic return, so it's all good.

Bubber, browse quickly through the following list and then say with a straight face that these expenditures "pay for themselves in economic return" (as you put it). [You can also go here for a description of the list.]

Sorry, that list of several billion dollars annually is like Adscam. It's a Liberal Party/government slush fund and nobody really knows how to stop it. Alot of the money doesn't go to children in need, or the homeless or people possibly deserving of assistance. Alot of it goes to corporations, other governments, foreigners, NGOs, rich individuals - God knows.

When the Left argues in favour of "big government and helping people in need", we get that list above. There is a wide difference between theory and practice.

The CTF is a bad comedy show. The "teddie awards" are their yearly attempt at har har and they continuously fall flat on their faces. As a result, they can't be taken seriously.

Gerry, your line of argument might resonate with about 5% of the voting population. Even NDP voters admit that government makes errors in spending money.

[Hicksey]

The CTF is more Libertarian than Conservative. They operate on a complete distrust of government, rather than a selective distrust like conservatives.

The CTF is a bad comedy show. The "teddie awards" are their yearly attempt at har har and they continuously fall flat on their faces. As a result, they can't be taken seriously.

Gerryhatrick,

You're being unreasonable here. Those awards, as cheesy as they are, do serve a purpose that even you should be able to see. If the government is spending on the things that are usually detailed in the "Teddie Awards", and they are neglecting the programs that I think need attention, and likely some of those you might think need attention too, we have a serious problem that needs correction.

My point was that even though their conduct was less than desireable in this instance, their end goal is certainly justifiable.

The biggest lie about supporters of the CTA is that we don't want to pay any taxes. That's simply not the truth. If we got all that was advertised we are getting for our tax dollars, if I hadn't watched my own family members die because of a poorly run government sponsored health care system, if I hadn't witnessed scandal after scandal by governments Liberal, NDP and Conservative wasting our tax dollars, if the federal government wasn't over taxing us by 11 billion a year only to leave the provinces collectively about 9-10 billion short every year and taxing us further when it isn't necessary I wouldn't see a reason for such an organization to exist let alone reason to support it.

[gerryhatrick]

Gerryhatrick,

You're being unreasonable here. Those awards, as cheesy as they are, do serve a purpose that even you should be able to see.

They would serve a purpose if we could have some confidence that the facts were given even the most minimal of checks by the CTF. Obviously they are not.

They might also serve a purpose if they didn't knowingly misrepresent the truth, as was the case with the "million dollar toilet".

As it stands, the CTF cooked it's own goose with careless accusations and blatent misrepresenting.

Credibility is easy to lose, hard to get back.