Harper would be smart to go green

[Guest Warwick Green]

IAN MACDONALD, The Gazette

Published: Saturday, June 03, 2006

In March 1988, when I was working in the Prime Minister's Office, someone in Allan Gregg's shop at Decima Research sent along some confidential polling data ranking the importance of public-policy issues.

The numbers were startling - the environment was far and away the most important issue to voters, especially urban middle class voters. The Mulroney government had the environment on its agenda - ozone-depletion policy was already an achievement and acid rain was on Canada's priority list with the United States.

But these numbers told us that, in an election year, the environment was top-of-mind with Canadians. When you thought about it, it made sense. We are a people whose sense of identity is defined by the North, a part of the country most of us have never seen. Owning a cottage on a lake is one of the enduring Canadian dreams. The environment isn't an abstraction, it's an envisioned ideal, and any politician who ignores it does so at his extreme peril....

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...a0-2b5e72b450a3

[geoffrey]

I think that some good policy by Harper would be eliminating the poisons we have in our air and water, clean up all the environmental disasters that have left many areas of Canada uninhabitable, and label foods and products that contain known carcinogins.

That'd be real environmental progess, not this pumping CO2 underground or sending money to China crap.

I still haven't figured out why the Kyoto camp wants to destroy our planet under the guise of saving it from this specter. It doesn't address any of the real environmental issues of our time. But here we are, stuck with the Treaty because the opposition believes in its falisies. Does anyone have any info on the supporters of Kyoto, such as all the wind power companies and stuff like that who probably lobby the parties to support it?

I feel its a big money game, and we are all going to suffer from it. We might have no CO2 in the air, but we'll all be dead from cancer and heavy metal poisioning of the food supply long before global warming is even a remote issue.

[gc1765]

I think that some good policy by Harper would be eliminating the poisons we have in our air and water, clean up all the environmental disasters that have left many areas of Canada uninhabitable, and label foods and products that contain known carcinogins.

Why label foods that contain carcinogens? How about banning any food that contains higher levels of carcinogens than what is safe? Oh wait, that is already done.

Does anyone have any info on the supporters of Kyoto, such as all the wind power companies and stuff like that who probably lobby the parties to support it?

How about all the oil company lobbyist trying to stop Kyoto!!

I feel its a big money game, and we are all going to suffer from it.

Yep, and right now the oil companies are winning, and we are all going to suffer from it.

[geoffrey]

I think that some good policy by Harper would be eliminating the poisons we have in our air and water, clean up all the environmental disasters that have left many areas of Canada uninhabitable, and label foods and products that contain known carcinogins.

Why label foods that contain carcinogens? How about banning any food that contains higher levels of carcinogens than what is safe? Oh wait, that is already done.

Does anyone have any info on the supporters of Kyoto, such as all the wind power companies and stuff like that who probably lobby the parties to support it?

How about all the oil company lobbyist trying to stop Kyoto!!

I feel its a big money game, and we are all going to suffer from it.

Yep, and right now the oil companies are winning, and we are all going to suffer from it.

Why don't you Kyoto supporting folks address the facts and realise that poisions and toxins are a much bigger threat to us than CO2? Why don't you address the fact that Kyoto, under the 'environmentally friendly' Liberals only increased our emissions at a massive cost? Why don't you address that Kyoto only is signed by a small group in comparison to the Asia Pacific agreement?

Keep promoting your failed plan.

Remember, the most opposed province in Canada to Kyoto was Alberta, understandably with Ottawa's attack plan on the oil industry to support Ontario auto-makers. With that in mind, the most opposed province to Kyoto is the greenest in Canada, with more wind and alternative energy investment than any other province. Calgary Transit's C-Train service is entirely emission free, being completely powered by wind. Over 35% of Calgarians take public transit.

And Alberta is now leading in cleaning up contaminated soil sites, such as the old Turner Valley refinery.

Sure we have oil and we mine it and sell it. But we are doing our part, without a ridiculous failed treaty behind us. Every other province, all supporters of the agreement have failed. Ontario has increased it pollution dramatically compared to Alberta, yet we are the big 'problem' environmentally in Canada?

I don't think so. This is the problem with the Kyoto argument, it has absolutely no facts or logic to back it.

[gc1765]

Why don't you Kyoto supporting folks address the facts and realise that poisions and toxins are a much bigger threat to us than CO2? Why don't you address the fact that Kyoto, under the 'environmentally friendly' Liberals only increased our emissions at a massive cost? Why don't you address that Kyoto only is signed by a small group in comparison to the Asia Pacific agreement?

Kyoto is not increasing our emissions, rather Canada is increasing it's emissions despite Kyoto. I think that's what you meant to say. Part of that blame may lie on the liberals, but most of it lies on every individual who does not do their part. I know you are doing your part, as am I, but there are many people out there who would still rather drive to work than take the bus or ride their bike. Cars are what contributes the most to greenhouse gases (not to mention other pollutants).

Keep promoting your failed plan.

I'm not promoting Kyoto, I'm promoting the facts.

Remember, the most opposed province in Canada to Kyoto was Alberta, understandably with Ottawa's attack plan on the oil industry to support Ontario auto-makers. With that in mind, the most opposed province to Kyoto is the greenest in Canada, with more wind and alternative energy investment than any other province. Calgary Transit's C-Train service is entirely emission free, being completely powered by wind. Over 35% of Calgarians take public transit.

And Alberta is now leading in cleaning up contaminated soil sites, such as the old Turner Valley refinery.

Sure we have oil and we mine it and sell it. But we are doing our part, without a ridiculous failed treaty behind us. Every other province, all supporters of the agreement have failed. Ontario has increased it pollution dramatically compared to Alberta, yet we are the big 'problem' environmentally in Canada?

Alberta?? Are you kidding me? They are responsible for more emissions than any province. Of course that is not the fault of the average Albertan, but rather the fault of the oil companies. The same people lobbying against Kyoto...

I don't think so. This is the problem with the Kyoto argument, it has absolutely no facts or logic to back it.

What is the Kyoto argument? There are tons of facts and evidence to suggest that cutting greenhouse gases will benefit the environment. Whether Kyoto is the best way to go about cutting emissions is debatable.

[geoffrey]

Alberta?? Are you kidding me? They are responsible for more emissions than any province. Of course that is not the fault of the average Albertan, but rather the fault of the oil companies. The same people lobbying against Kyoto...

Do your research before you just spew facts out that aren't even nearly true. You should know that Calgary within 5 years will be the only city in the world that is more than 1/4 powered by wind.

We've never had a smog day since I've lived here, I haven't even seen smog... when I was in Toronto, 10 years back, we had air advisories all the time.

So really, who pollutes more? McGuinty isn't doing anything about pollution, where as Alberta is a innovator and world leader in green power. We've got the right plan, and it doesn't involve Kyoto.

As well, what has Ontario done to clean up contaminated sites in the last 10 years. If you were at all interesting in actually making a real difference, you'd understand that the poisions and toxins in our air, water and soil are killing people with ever increasing rates of cancer.

CO2 doesn't kill people, it doesn't cause cancer. I'm making a rather accurate prediction when I say that we will all be in hospital beds with cancer long before global warming does anything.

This is more about being jealous about oil riches and less about making our environment better off. I told you how you can improve lives with the same amount of dollars currently being sent overseas. Instead you blame the oil companies... have you read anything about Suncor's plans to reduce greenhouse gases by up to 30%. Some reason I haven't read anything from GM or Ford on that...

You should really educate yourself more on the topic before bashing Alberta for Ontario's problem. Kyoto is another form of equalisation.

[gc1765]

Do your research before you just spew facts out that aren't even nearly true. You should know that Calgary within 5 years will be the only city in the world that is more than 1/4 powered by wind.

I could say the same about you. The difference is that my facts are true.

CALGARY - Alberta's greenhouse-gas emissions have once again topped all other provinces -- accounting for nearly a third of the country's total emissions, the latest government figures show.

The province's emissions rose to 39.4 per cent above its 1990 level in 2004, with the oil and gas industry cast as the main culprit behind the 235 megatonnes of greenhouse gases released into the air, the federal government's national inventory report states.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...28-cd4a45236aed

We've never had a smog day since I've lived here, I haven't even seen smog... when I was in Toronto, 10 years back, we had air advisories all the time.

So really, who pollutes more? McGuinty isn't doing anything about pollution, where as Alberta is a innovator and world leader in green power. We've got the right plan, and it doesn't involve Kyoto.

As well, what has Ontario done to clean up contaminated sites in the last 10 years. If you were at all interesting in actually making a real difference, you'd understand that the poisions and toxins in our air, water and soil are killing people with ever increasing rates of cancer.

You'll notice if you read my previous posts that I never once defended Ontario's environmental policies. All I said was the facts, which is that Alberta contributes more to greenhouse gases than anyone.

CO2 doesn't kill people, it doesn't cause cancer. I'm making a rather accurate prediction when I say that we will all be in hospital beds with cancer long before global warming does anything.

Hey we finally agree on something. I also believe strongly in increasing cancer research in Canada, which is something I argued on another thread (see Stephen Harper already using terrorism for political gain). But why not decrease greenhouse gases and try to reduce cancer rates?

This is more about being jealous about oil riches and less about making our environment better off. I told you how you can improve lives with the same amount of dollars currently being sent overseas. Instead you blame the oil companies... have you read anything about Suncor's plans to reduce greenhouse gases by up to 30%. Some reason I haven't read anything from GM or Ford on that...

You should really educate yourself more on the topic before bashing Alberta for Ontario's problem. Kyoto is another form of equalisation.

I am not jealous of oil riches, I'm doing quite fine thank you. And yes I actually am quite educated on the subject. However you might want take some of your own advice.