Spiegel Interview with Iran's Ahmadinejad

[August1991]

Spiegel Transcript in English

So many, many rhetorical questions. It reminds me of what Singhalese say about Muslims, "They wear a fez so that you never know what side is front." In this case, the rhetorical questions not only leave him wriggle room, they also have a supercilious tone.

IMV, Ahmadinejad is an intelligent even intellectually curious person who is utterly filled with himself. Intellectual curiosity aside, I'm sure that if you were stuck beside him on a long flight, he would quickly turn into an insufferable bore. I also feel sorry for any women in his family. He's no doubt a tyrant in his personal life.

Ahmadinejad: Well, then we have stirred up a very concrete discussion. We are posing two very clear questions. The first is: Did the Holocaust actually take place? You answer this question in the affirmative. So, the second question is: Whose fault was it? The answer to that has to be found in Europe and not in Palestine. It is perfectly clear: If the Holocaust took place in Europe, one also has to find the answer to it in Europe. On the other hand, if the Holocaust didn't take place, why then did this regime of occupation ...

SPIEGEL: ... You mean the state of Israel...

Ahmadinejad: ... come about? Why do the European countries commit themselves to defending this regime? Permit me to make one more point. We are of the opinion that, if an historical occurrence conforms to the truth, this truth will be revealed all the more clearly if there is more research into it and more discussion about it.

....

Ahmadinejad: Look here, my views are quite clear. We are saying that if the Holocaust occurred, then Europe must draw the consequences and that it is not Palestine that should pay the price for it. If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from. I believe that the German people today are also prisoners of the Holocaust. Sixty million people died in the Second World War. World War II was a gigantic crime. We condemn it all. We are against bloodshed, regardless of whether a crime was committed against a Muslim or against a Christian or a Jew. But the question is: Why among these 60 million victims are only the Jews the center of attention?

I have always been irritated when people claim that Israel is a "European" problem and Europeans solved it by inflicted Israel on the Palestinians.

Ahmadinejad: But there are two opinions on this in Europe. One group of scholars or persons, most of them politically motivated, say the Holocaust occurred. Then there is the group of scholars who represent the opposite position and have therefore been imprisoned for the most part. Hence, an impartial group has to come together to investigate and to render an opinion on this very important subject, because the clarification of this issue will contribute to the solution of global problems. Under the pretext of the Holocaust, a very strong polarization has taken place in the world and fronts have been formed. It would therefore be very good if an international and impartial group looked into the matter in order to clarify it once and for all. Normally, governments promote and support the work of researchers on historical events and do not put them in prison.

I think having hate legislation was a very bad idea. It gives people like Ahmadinejad an excuse to accuse us of doing what he does. Also, such legislation creates a horrible precedent that any dictator could easily use to silence anyone.

SPIEGEL: The key question is: Do you want nuclear weapons for your country?

Ahmadinejad: Allow me to encourage a discussion on the following question: How long do you think the world can be governed by the rhetoric of a handful of Western powers? Whenever they hold something against someone, they start spreading propaganda and lies, defamation and blackmail. How much longer can that go on?

This is why people like Ahmadinejad will get the support of the Left. He paints the picture as being "poor little countries" against "big powerful bullies". In his view, Iran is one of many countries oppressed by a handful of Western powers.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

I think having hate legislation was a very bad idea. It gives people like Ahmadinejad an excuse to accuse us of doing what he does. Also, such legislation creates a horrible precedent that any dictator could easily use to silence anyone.

I agree. Holocaust denial may be based on sheer ignorance, but to make it a crime smacks of tyranny.

This is why people like Ahmadinejad will get the support of the Left. He paints the picture as being "poor little countries" against "big powerful bullies".

Rubbish. I don't think his 'picture' will sway anyone. If the US chooses to strike or invade Iran, those that would oppose such a move will likely do so because is was another unsanctioned, unilateral decision by the US with solely their own interests in mind.

Very similar to 'Wyatt Earp', the beloved US 'Marshall' (though he was just a deputy at that time), and his 'Gunfight at the OK Corral'. Few people know that his action was seen as that of of ambush and murder, and that he was run out of town for his brand of 'justice'.

[crazymf]

Well, Amandihnajine(spelling?) brings up a point I've never considered.

When the Jew were persecuted in Europe ie. Germany, why didn't the allied powers slice off a chunk of land right there and give it to the Jews at that time? Is it merely because the Jewish problem was but one of many, or did the Jews choose to leave or weren't given a choice?

Educate me...

[August1991]

If you can believe it, Stalin did create a Jewish republic in the far east (link) and some Jews went to live there.

This thread highlights a related part of Canadian history.

Jews are found in almost every country in the world and there were many Jews living throughout the Middle East in 1900. These Sephardic Jews have now almost all moved to Israel.

The fact is that Zionism predates the Holocaust and the State of Israel is much more than a consequence of European history. For thousands of years, Jews never had a safe place to live of their own.

There's a similar story in Canadian history. The British deported around 10-20,000 Acadians in the 1750s, creating an Acadian diaspora. Many of these Acadians subsequently returned "home".

[crazymf]

Thank you Aug.

The very idea of a state based on religion whether it's Jews or Muslims is fundamentaly different than the core values of western civilization. I think somehow Israel is a paradox or at least a contradiction in calling itself a democracy while at the same time being a Jewish state. While I do not embrace the actions of the Palestinians at all, I can see their point in having Hamas as a legitimate government as it was elected democratically.

The plot thickens.... :angry:

[GostHacked]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1788907,00.html

SPIEGEL: The key question is: Do you want nuclear weapons for your country?

Ahmadinejad: Allow me to encourage a discussion on the following question: How long do you think the world can be governed by the rhetoric of a handful of Western powers? Whenever they hold something against someone, they start spreading propaganda and lies, defamation and blackmail. How much longer can that go on?

--

This is why people like Ahmadinejad will get the support of the Left. He paints the picture as being "poor little countries" against "big powerful bullies". In his view, Iran is one of many countries oppressed by a handful of Western powers.

Well Iran gives up the nukes, Israel should as well.

Blix, who was speaking in his new capacity as head of a Swedish organisation, the Weapons of Mass Destruction Commission, said on Thursday that a nuclear-free Middle East would be possible if states in the region, including Israel, rejected nuclear activities.

Israel is suspected to have nukes, and going by Blix, they have more than any of the Muslim countries combined. And with the Iranians seeking nuclear technology (but perhaps not nukes) to even up the playing field. Notice my sig line.

Well, Amandihnajine(spelling?) brings up a point I've never considered.

When the Jew were persecuted in Europe ie. Germany, why didn't the allied powers slice off a chunk of land right there and give it to the Jews at that time? Is it merely because the Jewish problem was but one of many, or did the Jews choose to leave or weren't given a choice?

Educate me...

I would love to know this answer as well. THIS is a very important and fantastic question.

[KrustyKidd]

Well Iran gives up the nukes, Israel should as well.

Well, under that supposition, since Israel has never said they wished any nation destroyed, then all Muslim countries should stop saying Israel should not exist. Otherwise, having nukes and denying your detractors same makes complete sense.

Israel is suspected to have nukes, and going by Blix, they have more than any of the Muslim countries combined. And with the Iranians seeking nuclear technology (but perhaps not nukes) to even up the playing field.

The Muslim countries you speak of all wish to destroy Israel. Their nukes are defensive and, the Arabs historicly attack Israel time and time again thus leaving any sane person with the cerainty that if they had them, they would use them offensively. Hardly a case of just being 'even.'

[August1991]

Well Iran gives up the nukes, Israel should as well.

That's the logic of saying since the Hell's Angels can't have guns, the RCMP shouldn't have them either.

Gays can kiss in Tel Aviv, and Israeli women can wear what they want. That's not possible in Tehran.

At an extremely fundamental level, which society do you defend?

[Rue]

Well, Amandihnajine(spelling?) brings up a point I've never considered.

When the Jew were persecuted in Europe ie. Germany, why didn't the allied powers slice off a chunk of land right there and give it to the Jews at that time? Is it merely because the Jewish problem was but one of many, or did the Jews choose to leave or weren't given a choice?

Educate me...

Well actually at one point Winston Churchill suggested all Jews go to Uganda and at one point in Germany there was discussion of deporting all Jews to Madagasscar.

Jews did politely tell Churchill they had no interest in living in Uganda.

The point is, the Jewish religion believes that all Jews are spiritually connected to the land of Israel and so Zionism is about the concept of Jews merely returning to where they came from to complete the spiritual connection. In Jewish prayer there is always reference to the return to Israel and this spiritual connection.

There is nothing comparable in Christianity or Islam so this is why people who can't understand the religion think its racism to believe Jews want to live in a Jewish state or feel they have a connection to the soil in Israel or to put it simpler, think its irrational to have such a connection.

The so called Jewish problem in Europe is one thing. What also should be kept in mind is that in the Muslim world, Jews were also second class citizens living in a system of dhimmitude or apartheid. They were not allowed to own land, practice their faith in public or have the same rights as Muslim citizens. So to depict it simply as a modern problem caused by the holocaust is a tad simplistic. The holocaust was the culmination of over 3000 years of the Christian church teaching Christians Jews killed Jesus and therefore should always be treated as second class outcasts. As for the Jewish problem, there also always was one in the Muslim world where they had to live in ghettoes. The discrimination was different, but it was there. And yes the Muslim world has its share of mass murders of Jewish and Christian and other religious communities that were not Muslim, i.e. Bahaiis.

[Rue]

Well Iran gives up the nukes, Israel should as well.

Just Israel? Hmm. Seems like you remain silent on Pakistan, India, Brazil. North Korea, Russia, China, South Africa, Britain, France...why the selectivity?

More to the point you don't think if Canada, Japan, Italy, Belgium,Germany, or Holland wanted to build one they couldn't?

As well the Ukraine, Bulgaria and Argentina just to name three countries are rumoured to have them as well.

The actual number of countries that have the capacity to build nuclear bombs is hidden.

The idea that if you simply tell Israel to give up its bomb once Iran does, brings into question the debate Iran started in the first place-who decides what countries have the bomb?

The bottom line is there is the same standard for all countries or none at all. You can't have it both ways and be a little bit pregnant.

[KrustyKidd]

The idea that if you simply tell Israel to give up its bomb once Iran does, brings into question the debate Iran started in the first place-who decides what countries have the bomb?

Aside from the obvious which is countries like Iran and many other Muslim regimes would more than likely actually use them against Israel as a matter of course or in keeping with the public rhetoric they have carried n with for years, there is the obvious. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. Hence, this is tantamount to me saying that I wish to build a country, then populate it and then, build nuclear weapons so should be taken seriously and, have Israel and all the nations on earth disarm because I, Krusty Kid am somday going to have it together.

Iran does not have nukes, and, will never have nukes. If they ever do, the people who will be most surprised will be the Iranian ruling council who will wonder why the Israelis or the US never took them out. So, what I wonder is why Israel shoudl get rid of theirs so Iran will not commence with a program which wil someday bring them to the beginings of a weapons program which will be taken out by missiles and bombs.

Now, to be fair and to also illustrate without going into great detail, some fairness, here are some diverse coutnries that I could see and have no problem with in owning nukes; Belgium, Germany, Italy, Australia, Japan, Taiwan, Egypt. The one common thing they have going is that they have not based their polititcal philosophy on killing other people from other nations.

Kapiche?