Scott75 Posted 18 hours ago Report Posted 18 hours ago 16 minutes ago, User said: 38 minutes ago, Scott75 said: 57 minutes ago, User said: Russian forces were directly involved in the initial fighting in 2014. They supplied weapons, tanks, artillery, troops, and special forces. Lies, though to be fair, they were government sponsored lies. Yes, you are regurgitating Russian lies. I was talking about the lies you were regurgitating, try to keep up. But I didn't just -say- that what you were saying was lies, I provided evidence, evidence that you snipped out completely. For anyone here who may not have seen the evidence I'm referring to, it's here: https://repolitics.com/forums/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=57341&content_commentid=1822788 Quote
User Posted 17 hours ago Report Posted 17 hours ago 37 minutes ago, Scott75 said: I was talking about the lies you were regurgitating, try to keep up. But I didn't just -say- that what you were saying was lies, I provided evidence, evidence that you snipped out completely. For anyone here who may not have seen the evidence I'm referring to, it's here: https://repolitics.com/forums/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=57341&content_commentid=1822788 No lie. Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598 "If our unit hadn't crossed the border, everything would have fizzled out — like in [the Ukrainian city of] Kharkiv, like in Odessa," Strelkov, who uses that nom-de-guerre meaning "Shooter" to replace his last name Girkin, was quoted as saying. "There would have been several dozen killed, burned, detained. And that would have been the end of it. But the flywheel of the war, which is continuing to this day, was spun by our unit. We mixed up all the cards on the table," he said." 44 minutes ago, Scott75 said: So clearly, this is -not- a Russian sanctioned paper at this point, but just another western publication. Not being a Russian state-sanctioned paper is your big argument? LOL That doesn't change the facts. It only further proves you are pushing Russian propaganda. Quote
Scott75 Posted 16 hours ago Report Posted 16 hours ago 54 minutes ago, User said: 1 hour ago, Scott75 said: 1 hour ago, User said: 2 hours ago, Scott75 said: 2 hours ago, User said: Russian forces were directly involved in the initial fighting in 2014. They supplied weapons, tanks, artillery, troops, and special forces. Lies, though to be fair, they were government sponsored lies. Yes, you are regurgitating Russian lies. I was talking about the lies you were regurgitating, try to keep up. But I didn't just -say- that what you were saying was lies, I provided evidence, evidence that you snipped out completely. For anyone here who may not have seen the evidence I'm referring to, it's here: https://repolitics.com/forums/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=57341&content_commentid=1822788 No lie. Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598 "If our unit hadn't crossed the border, everything would have fizzled out — like in [the Ukrainian city of] Kharkiv, like in Odessa," Strelkov, who uses that nom-de-guerre meaning "Shooter" to replace his last name Girkin, was quoted as saying. "There would have been several dozen killed, burned, detained. And that would have been the end of it. But the flywheel of the war, which is continuing to this day, was spun by our unit. We mixed up all the cards on the table," he said." For the audience, I'd already pointed out that the Moscow Times has been a propaganda publication for western interests since its founding. For evidence of this, please see the following post: 1 hour ago, User said: 1 hour ago, Scott75 said: The Moscow Times? Oh User, your education on that publication is severely lacking. From the start, this publication has been run by someone that has cared little if at all for the truth. A good article on its founding to 2015, by John Helmer, one of its first writers, who was fired for not wanting to tell lies: https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/05/08/no-more-regurgitation-from-the-moscow-times/ Quoting from the beginning of the article: ** The Moscow Times version claims it “was established as Independent Media in March 1992 by a group of Dutch investors headed by Derk Sauer…From the beginning, founder Derk Sauer raised an ‘Iron Curtain’ between the editorial and commercial divisions as a precautionary measure to protect the newspaper’s reputation in a country where the media is still known for publishing paid-for articles. The newsroom and commercial offices even occupy separate floors at SIM’s headquarters in Moscow.” Sauer himself claims to have sold his “beautiful house” in the Netherlands to raise the cash to finance the start of the newspaper. “I sold the house,” he said last November, “developed a business plan, plunged into the company’s financial performance and become a true entrepreneur.” In 1992 Sauer told me himself he was getting investment from US sources. I am the last of the original Moscow Times writers still reporting from Moscow. The story of my sacking can be read, along with the story which caused it, here. At the beginning of September 1992, the political and constitutional conflict was intensifying between the Russian parliament, led by Ruslan Khasbulatov, and President Boris Yeltsin. Reporting on growing support for Khasbulatov and Yeltsin’s worsening position, I was told by the Times editor, then Meg Bortin (above, centre), to change my text, so that it would mean the opposite of what I was reporting, and favour Yeltsin. I refused; Bortin gave me an ultimatum; I refused again; the article was spiked; and I never appeared in The Moscow Times again (above right – Sauer and Bortin in 1992). According to an exchange of documents on September 4, 1992, Sauer proposed paying me a monthly stipend if I would stay silent. When Sauer’s payments stopped, I resumed regular reporting in the English-language media of Moscow – firstly in the Moscow Tribune published by Anthony Louis, then in The Russia Journal of Ajay Goyal (below). ** Sonoma acquired Independent Media in 2005, and sold "MoscowTimes LLC to Demyan Kudryavtsev [ru; et], a former director of Kommersant.[30][31][32]", according to Wikipedia. Continuing from Wikipedia: ** In 2017, the paper version stopped. The final paper edition appeared on 6 July.[33] In July 2017 the operation of the paper changed to Stichting 2 Oktober, a foundation based in the Netherlands.[34][35] The Moscow Times currently belongs to a limited liability company which is 51% owned by Russian businessman Vladimir Jao, the CEO of an airline catering company, 30% by Svetlana Korshunova (Russian: Светлана Коршунова), general director of the paper, and 19% by Derk Sauer, the original founder of the paper. Speaking to Kommersant, Derk Sauer explained that this is merely to comply with a Russian law which prohibits foreigners from controlling more than 20% of any Russia-based media company, since Sauer is a Dutch citizen. He further said that Vladimir Jao is an old friend of his, and "he does not control the publication, he is a partner".[36][37][38] In March 2020, the online newspaper launched a Russian language edition.[39] Following the passage of a law restricting coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine in March 2022, the newspaper moved its main editors to Amsterdam.[1][40] On 15 April, Roskomnadzor blocked access to the Russian-language website of The Moscow Times in Russia after it had published what authorities called a false report on Russian riot police officers refusing to participate in the invasion.[7][8] To make the website available within Russia despite blocks, it registered a range of domain names, sending links to the next current domain to readers via Telegram when one is blocked.[41] On 17 March 2023, The Moscow Times said it has been designated a ‘foreign agent’ by Russia's justice ministry, which accused The Moscow Times of spreading inaccurate information about authorities' decisions, thereby forming a negative image of Russia. The Moscow Times said that the foreign agent legislation had been "disproportionately used”.[42] On 10 July 2024, the Prosecutor General of Russia declared The Moscow Times an undesirable organization.[43] This designation practically bans the Times from operating in Russia, as anyone working for them or interacting with them (such as by agreeing to be interviewed) could potentially be prosecuted and sent to jail.[44] ** So clearly, this is -not- a Russian sanctioned paper at this point, but just another western publication. Not being a Russian state-sanctioned paper is your big argument? No, that was my last sentence. You may want to take a look at the rest of my post. Quote
User Posted 16 hours ago Report Posted 16 hours ago 8 minutes ago, Scott75 said: For the audience, I'd already pointed out that the Moscow Times has been a propaganda publication for western interests since its founding. For evidence of this, please see the following post: You asserted this, for sure... doesn't change the facts. Here you go, NPR: Girkin, 44, is a Russian citizen from Moscow and a former colonel in the Federal Security Service, or FSB. He prefers being called by a nickname he chose for himself — Strelkov, which is Russian for "shooter." Analyst Boris Kagarlitsky says Girkin became an important figure in the separatist movement in eastern Ukraine because Kremlin planners didn't have a well-thought-out strategy for Russia's involvement there. "They just wanted to control the situation," Kagarlitsky says, "especially when it dealt with people who were part of their own team, like Girkin, who definitely was sent to Ukraine by Russian Intelligence, and he doesn't deny that fact. And then, because of the lack of very clear ... plan, he started making decisions on his own." https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/01/06/372872870/the-russian-who-claims-credit-for-fanning-the-flames-in-ukraine Quote
Scott75 Posted 15 hours ago Report Posted 15 hours ago (edited) 54 minutes ago, User said: 1 hour ago, Scott75 said: For the audience, I'd already pointed out that the Moscow Times has been a propaganda publication for western interests since its founding. For evidence of this, please see the following post: You asserted this, for sure... I did more than that, I provided evidence for my assertion. But I see that you have provided a non Moscow Times source, so let's get into it... 54 minutes ago, User said: Here you go, NPR: Girkin, 44, is a Russian citizen from Moscow and a former colonel in the Federal Security Service, or FSB. He prefers being called by a nickname he chose for himself — Strelkov, which is Russian for "shooter." Analyst Boris Kagarlitsky says Girkin became an important figure in the separatist movement in eastern Ukraine because Kremlin planners didn't have a well-thought-out strategy for Russia's involvement there. "They just wanted to control the situation," Kagarlitsky says, "especially when it dealt with people who were part of their own team, like Girkin, who definitely was sent to Ukraine by Russian Intelligence, and he doesn't deny that fact. And then, because of the lack of very clear ... plan, he started making decisions on his own." https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/01/06/372872870/the-russian-who-claims-credit-for-fanning-the-flames-in-ukraine At least with NPR, there's no illusion that its financing isn't western. I see that this article is also more honest as well, pointing out that Girkin had nothing to do with the Russian government's moves. Last I heard, he was languishing in a Russian prison. Sure, Girkin played a role in organizing the resistance after Euromaidan, but the -reason- eastern Ukraine started aligning itself more closely to Russia in 2014 was because of what happened -during- Euromaidan, as well as a few other events, such as the Odessa massacre. Here's a good article on what actually happened during Euromaidan by journalist Kit Knightly: https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/24/timeline-euromaidan-the-original-ukraine-crisis/ And here's a good article on the Odessa massacre that happened shortly thereafter by Russian historian Evgeny Norin: https://www.rt.com/russia/554860-burned-alive-2014-odessa/ Edited 15 hours ago by Scott75 Quote
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