Harper sells out Canada for his own political life?

[normanchateau]

Don't know about PEI, but why not, as Harper said, all provinces could have a say.

Do you suppose this is actually a principled position or one designed merely to get the BQ vote and secure a CPC majority, or both?

[shoop]

Seems like Harper's shrewdness as a politician is shining through.

Harper is taking a different approach to strengthening the Federation. The UNESCO deal is good for all Canadians.

As is the possibility of other provinces, even PEI, being given mor eof a voice in areas that they have a special interest in.

Of course it wasn't, and these things do seem to be a more unifying force, if it saves us from another separation vote, good for Harper.

Harper saysQuebec's participation in the Canadian delegation at UNESCO is not a step toward a new round of constitutional talks nor is it recognition of Quebec as a nation in any form. And don't forget he also told Quebec rhat the UNESCO deal applies only if Quebec is willing to work within the federation, nor does he exclude the possibility of allowing other provinces a voice in other international forums.

Charest also said that this agreement is as much about provinces playing a more important role in the federation as it is about Quebec gaining a voice at UNESCO. Not to mention that. Harper also added that Alberta could have a similar status to Quebec in UNESCO within the International Energy Agency

[normanchateau]

Seems like Harper's shrewdness as a politician is shining through.

Shrewd, yes. Principled, no.

[shoop]

Thank you.

Seems better than the choice Canadians rejected on January 23rd, i.e. Paul Martin.

Shrewd, no. Principled no.

While PM Harper's principles are a matter of debate.

Only people such as yourself, who admittedly ABHOR Harper, are calling his principles into question.

Chretien's and Martin's were unarguably lacking. ADSCAM!

Shrewd, yes. Principled, no.

[normanchateau]

Thank you.

Seems better than the choice Canadians rejected on January 23rd, i.e. Paul Martin.

Fortunately for those who abhor him, Harper won't be facing either Martin or Chretien in the next election. Harper might even be facing someone principled and not linked to Adscam.

[shoop]

That's a pretty big *might* normie.

After 22 years of undoubtedly unprincipled leadership, dating back to Turner, why would the Liberals go for principles all of a sudden?

Fortunately for those who abhor him, Harper won't be facing either Martin or Chretien in the next election. Harper might even be facing someone principled and not linked to Adscam.

[southerncomfort]

ROTFLMAO guess that means the liberals won't be having a liberal as a leader.......

[scribblet]

That's a pretty big *might* normie.

After 22 years of undoubtedly unprincipled leadership, dating back to Turner, why would the Liberals go for principles all of a sudden?

[Nocrap]

That's a pretty big *might* normie.

After 22 years of undoubtedly unprincipled leadership, dating back to Turner, why would the Liberals go for principles all of a sudden?

When I said it was a campaign promise, I didn't mean that it was on his infamous list of priorities. It was only made in Quebec. Of course, he also promised Quebec voters that any elected CPC MP's in the province would be guaranteed a cabinet post. Hmmm....let's count them shall we?

When I think of Harper's relationship with Quebec I'm reminded of an article in the National Citizens' Coalition's Bulldog magazine, when Mr. Harper was president. I'm going to try to find a link if it is on the web anywhere, but the words have stuck with me for sometime. The jest of the article was that we should not worry about distinct culture for Quebec since eventually 'ethnic cleansing' would sort the whole thing out.

I had not heard the term 'ethnic cleansing' since the Nazi era, so it was a real wakeup call.

Hope I can find it.

As for the UNESCO thing, it's only throwing a bone to grab votes, and really does not mean much on the world stage. And who's to say the UN will even approve it?

[scribblet]

I certainly do hope you find a link because your insinuation is just that, and you might want to put it in context also.

The gist of the article if I remember correctly, was that support for separation would increase in the long term because of 'peaceful ethnic cleansing' becing committed by Quebec.... in other words, the stifling of English/anglophone opposition. This we know to be true. Other than that, it doesn't 'tell' anything.

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/govrel/news.cfm?story=42847

Quebec representation

Harper has named four out the 10 new Tory MPs from Quebec to cabinet posts in the hopes of gaining more seats in the province.

In addition to Cannon at transport and Bernier at industry, Jean-Pierre Blackburn has been appointed as labour minister, and Josee Verner as the minister of international co-operation.

[Leafless]

seabe

You wrote- " The implication is that Quebec must be kept dependent and then being blamed for being dependent. But it could also mean Quebec must be kept in a state of submission."

You must think Quebec really is a country.

You are confusing the two states of dependency relating to UNESCO.

Quebec is not independent financially and depends on Canada concerning equalization payments for it's continuing existence to the standards federalism creates for all provinces within the country of Canada.

But to say "Quebec must be kept in a state of submission" is pure folly as all provinces are dependent on the authority and control of the federal government with Quebec being no different.

I agree with Shakeyhands this whole Quebec UNESCO fiasco is breeding grounds for further constitutional unrest and could come back biting Harper on the ass.

[Nocrap]

I certainly do hope you find a link because your insinuation is just that, and you might want to put it in context also.

The gist of the article if I remember correctly, was that support for separation would increase in the long term because of 'peaceful ethnic cleansing' becing committed by Quebec.... in other words, the stifling of English/anglophone opposition. This we know to be true. Other than that, it doesn't 'tell' anything.

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/govrel/news.cfm?story=42847

Quebec representation

Harper has named four out the 10 new Tory MPs from Quebec to cabinet posts in the hopes of gaining more seats in the province.

In addition to Cannon at transport and Bernier at industry, Jean-Pierre Blackburn has been appointed as labour minister, and Josee Verner as the minister of international co-operation.

4 out of 10 is not the same as all elected MP's.

I did find a link for the February 1997 Bulldog if it works (it's in adobe acrobat)

Bulldog

"Support in Quebec for secession in the short term is softening but that trend can be

expected to reverse over the next five years because of the continuing eaceful ethnic

cleansing that is going on."

I find the term 'ethnic cleansing' offensive unless it is in the sentence 'the term ethnic cleansing should never be used in a civilized society'.

It certainly sent up red flags for me.

Other Choice Harperspeak

And let's not forget his infamous June 1997 speech when he said of Quebec

"For years, we have given concessions of various kinds of the province of Quebec, political

and economic, to make them happier. They have not worked". and...."The establishment came down with a constitutional package which they put to a national referendum. The package included distinct society status for Quebec and some other changes, including some that would just horrify you, putting universal Medicare in our constitution, and feminist rights, and a whole bunch of other things."

Link to Speech

[scribblet]

Where did he say 'all' Quebec MP's ? He could have just picked all his old Alliance friends, but he didn't, it is more influence from the PC side, and gives much better regional representation in the government.

Obviously he has changed his thinking about Quebec, which reflects well for him, whatever he said in 1997 sure doesn't cut any ice with what's being done today. Dragging up old quotes from an anti Harper website, doesn't mean anything either.

That link is not from the Bulldog, its another website, supposedly quoting the NCC, however, I don't find anything wrong with it, it was on the mark, particularly when we have theParizeau's comments about the ethnic vote in Quebec.

[shoop]

He never said *all* elected Quebec MPs would make it into cabinet. People would have flipped out every where else in the county if he had said that. For good reason too.

4 out of 10 is pretty good for the province though.

Where did he say 'all' Quebec MP's ?

[Nocrap]

He never said *all* elected Quebec MPs would make it into cabinet. People would have flipped out every where else in the county if he had said that. For good reason too.

4 out of 10 is pretty good for the province though.

Where did he say 'all' Quebec MP's ?

On election night when I was watching the coverage, the commentators remarked how well the CPC were doing in Quebec. They stated that it might be difficult for Harper to keep his promises to them however, since he had previously stated that any MP winning in that province would be given a cabinet post. I'll see if I can find it anywhere on the web or my newspaper clippings.

I do have a photocopy of the Feb 1997 Bulldog which I can scan, since some might question the validity of the quote posted on another website. That has stuck with me for a long time.

[margrace]

He never said *all* elected Quebec MPs would make it into cabinet. People would have flipped out every where else in the county if he had said that. For good reason too.

4 out of 10 is pretty good for the province though.

Where did he say 'all' Quebec MP's ?

On election night when I was watching the coverage, the commentators remarked how well the CPC were doing in Quebec. They stated that it might be difficult for Harper to keep his promises to them however, since he had previously stated that any MP winning in that province would be given a cabinet post. I'll see if I can find it anywhere on the web or my newspaper clippings.

I do have a photocopy of the Feb 1997 Bulldog which I can scan, since some might question the validity of the quote posted on another website. That has stuck with me for a long time.

nocrap you are right, I too heard that statement and wonder too how Harper could possibly put them all into his cabinet. It stuck with me also. I forget which commentator I was listening too.

[shoop]

I don't think he said that. It was too much of a conflict with the rest of his message.

It definitely looked like double-digits for Quebec MPs was possible.

That's the funny thing about people's memories and why eye witness testimony is the least reliable form of testimony.

Regardless, let's look at the facts. Nobody is making an issue of this phantom promise. Do you think if people really took it seriously in Quebec *if it happened* that Harper would be experiencing the strong support there that he is?

nocrap you are right, I too heard that statement and wonder too how Harper could possibly put them all into his cabinet. It stuck with me also. I forget which commentator I was listening too.