Is Stephen Harper Taking Canada for a Test Drive?

[Nocrap]

I couldn't find the item on the net, but an article by Siri Argell for CanWest News Services, gives a glimpse into how Michael Ignatieff will handle the CPC.

"'I'm running against Stephen Harper's idea of Canada' Ignatieff told his supporters.

Ignatieff says he believes Canadians voted the Conservative government into power in January out of a desire for change but he added that the election result does not represent an ideological shift to the right amoung the electorate but a conditional approval akin to letting him 'drive the car around the block a couple of times'"

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[margrace]

so he had better bring it back in good condition aye.

[Nocrap]

so he had better bring it back in good condition aye.

Oh yeah, or he won't get the keys again.

Actually, though at first I was not impressed, I kind of like his prospects as Liberal leader. It could be a drawback that he has lived in the US for the past thrirty years, but never gave up his citizenship. He could be seen as an avenger, returning home to clean up the mess.

He is centre left in his policies. Has no sponsorship baggage, and wants to restore the respect, not only of the Liberals, but of government in general.

Harper promised this, but got off to a bad start and just gave Canadians more of the same.

So far I think that he would have my vote.

[August1991]

"I am fighting to revive faith -- not just in the Liberal party -- but in politics itself," he told 200 supporters gathered in his Etobicoke-Lakeshore riding.

Minus the reference to the Liberal Party, that's what Harper's been talking about too. It's the reasoning behind the new legislation tabled today. Many Canadians believe the federal government is a mammoth boondoggle.

Mr. Ignatieff said he believes Canadians voted the Conservative government in to power in January out of a desire for change. But he added the result does not represent an ideological shift to the right among the electorate but a conditional approval akin to letting him "drive the car around the block a couple of times."

But of course everyone knows that the car really belongs to the Liberal Party.

1. The Liberals are still arrogant, and they likely won't change until they've been out of power for a few years.

2. Even if Ignatieff is genuine, I somehow doubt he is the kind of person who will change the Liberal Party. Rather, the Liberals are looking for new curtains to hang in the window - and Ignatieff is pretending to be a pleasing shade of pink.

[geoffrey]

Ignatieff might be left leaning on economics and social policies, but he is pro-Iraq war and pro-torture. He's written extensively at the academic level on these topics, and is quite hawkish.

Won't fly with Quebec.

Though I like the guy for his respectful demeanor and for being a rare politican with intelligence, I do fear another NEP attempt on Alberta from him. He's just as leftist as Trudeau when it comes to things like that.

[Nocrap]

Ignatieff might be left leaning on economics and social policies, but he is pro-Iraq war and pro-torture. He's written extensively at the academic level on these topics, and is quite hawkish.

Won't fly with Quebec.

Though I like the guy for his respectful demeanor and for being a rare politican with intelligence, I do fear another NEP attempt on Alberta from him. He's just as leftist as Trudeau when it comes to things like that.

Ignatieff might be left leaning on economics and social policies, but he is pro-Iraq war and pro-torture. He's written extensively at the academic level on these topics, and is quite hawkish.

Actually I had forgotten about his stand on Iraq, though I remember hearing that he supported the US in Iraq but that Canada was right to stay out of it. On the other hand, Mr. Harper was for Canadians going to Iraq, so I guess it would again be a level playing field. I'm still watching him with interest.

[Teddy Ballgame]

Well, I used to do a lot of executive recruiting and I could write a rather hilarious black comedy on why Ignatieff is pretty much the last person in the entire country that the feckless, clueless Liberals SHOULD choose to lead them (which, of course, means that Iggy's odds of winning the leadership are pretty good since the Liberals of late have done an excellent job of shooting themsleves in the foot).

Imagine if you will myself as the executive recruiter presenting Iggy Ignatieff's resume and qualifications to my client, the electorate. It would go something like this:

- Mr. Client, I realize this is a very big job to fill and is even bigger in that it is the precursor for an even bigger job so that only the best talent will do and I have found a real paragon of virtue for you after searching the length and breadth of this vast nation.

- Teddy, I trust this candidate will be a very knowledgeable person in regard to the recent history, political developments and issues of this great nation and has the many years of externsive Canadian experience that is needed to acquire the knowledge of Canada and Canadians that will enable him to lead us with expertise, sensitivity and credibility?

- Err, well, Mr. Client, the truth is that candidate Iggy has actually been out of the country pretty much all the time for the past thirty years and has missed just about all of the major developments in Canadian politics and history since Trudeau was still porking Maggie and seersucker summer suits were in fashion.

- Then I presume that if this guy wants to lead Canada without having lived here he at least has compensated for his national ignorance by being an expert politician with great experience and results in wooing the electorate and performing in parliament?

- Why no, Mr. Client. This Iggy guy actually has hardly any experience running for office or serving in parliament. He has only three months of experience running for office and he actually won fewer votes in his hand picked safest Liberal riding in English Canada than the useless senile old windbag Jean Augustine who used to represent us there. And he has only four days of parliamentary experience and has yet to actually say let alone do a bloody thing in parliament.

- Teddy, I'm starting to loose my enthusiasm for this Iggy guy right about now. Tell me that at least he has extensive and successful experience leading and managing a major public or private enterprise requiring the kinds of executive skills that are important in running our Liberal party as a prelude to taking back our natural position as The Governing Party and then running the largest organization in Canada, the federal government.

- Mr. Client, I'd really like to tell you that but I can't. The truth is that Iggy has never run anything other than his mouth, being the head academic at a boutique academic department called the Harvard Kennedy School of International Relations. Iggy is that classic pedantic egghead who likes to indulge in paralysis by analysis and who can't do so teaches instead. Remember what Robert F. Townsend wrote in "Up the Organization!"? He observed "The trouble with graduates of Harvard Business School is that they want to to start at the top and then move up." Iggy is the same.

- Teddy, you dumb, incompetent, gullible moron, before I kick you out of my office for trying to foist this totally unqualified pig in a poke off on me and then I call a real executive recruiter who will find me a qualified individual with the requisite knowledge, experience and skills for this job, is there anything - anything at all - that might redeem this Iggy character and therefore you as well in my eyes?

- Certainly, Mr. Client, the big thing about Iggy is that he is said by some to be much like our former leader Pierre Trudeau, our Philosopher King who kept us in power and in the trough for 16 years! OK, he is actually ten years older than Trudeau was when he became leader and he has much less Canadian experience as well as even less political and governmental and managerial experience and he is less colourful and charismatic and sexy. But some of our deep Liberal thinkers believe we can pass him off to a innocent and ignorant public as the second coming of Pierre Trudeau himself and thereby win power again.

- Teddy, get the fuck out of here. Trudeau was an economic disaster who bankrupted the country to pay off public sector monopoly unions and pander to every political interest group in existence, strangled the economy in exceessive taxation and bureaucratic red tape, bungled and weakened our most important diplomatic and trade relationships, and sowed serious problems in terms of national unity and identity with his official multiculturalism crap, the NEP, FIRA, the Charter of all rights and no responsbilities and other misguided policies which have now been mostly abandoned by even the Liberals. Historians have long concluded that this Trudeau was a disaster for Canada and even the average Canadian is finally catching on to the fraud that was Peter Waterhole. If you think I'll pay you a dime for a totally unqualified candidate like this Iggy guy - whose only "qualification" is that he is something like another guy who was totally unqualified - you must be smoking the weed of wisdom. Fuck off and take Iggy with you.

Other than that, Nocrap, I would have no problem presenting Ignatieff on a short list of qualified candiates for Liberal leadership.

Have you considered changing your name from "Nocrap" to "Allcrap" or perhaps "Useful Liberal Idiot"?

[Nocrap]

Well, I used to do a lot of executive recruiting and I could write a rather hilarious black comedy on why Ignatieff is pretty much the last person in the entire country that the feckless, clueless Liberals SHOULD choose to lead them (which, of course, means that Iggy's odds of winning the leadership are pretty good since the Liberals of late have done an excellent job of shooting themsleves in the foot).

Imagine if you will myself as the executive recruiter presenting Iggy Ignatieff's resume and qualifications to my client, the electorate. It would go something like this:

- Mr. Client, I realize this is a very big job to fill and is even bigger in that it is the precursor for an even bigger job so that only the best talent will do and I have found a real paragon of virtue for you after searching the length and breadth of this vast nation.

- Teddy, I trust this candidate will be a very knowledgeable person in regard to the recent history, political developments and issues of this great nation and has the many years of externsive Canadian experience that is needed to acquire the knowledge of Canada and Canadians that will enable him to lead us with expertise, sensitivity and credibility?

- Err, well, Mr. Client, the truth is that candidate Iggy has actually been out of the country pretty much all the time for the past thirty years and has missed just about all of the major developments in Canadian politics and history since Trudeau was still porking Maggie and seersucker summer suits were in fashion.

- Then I presume that if this guy wants to lead Canada without having lived here he at least has compensated for his national ignorance by being an expert politician with great experience and results in wooing the electorate and performing in parliament?

- Why no, Mr. Client. This Iggy guy actually has hardly any experience running for office or serving in parliament. He has only three months of experience running for office and he actually won fewer votes in his hand picked safest Liberal riding in English Canada than the useless senile old windbag Jean Augustine who used to represent us there. And he has only four days of parliamentary experience and has yet to actually say let alone do a bloody thing in parliament.

- Teddy, I'm starting to loose my enthusiasm for this Iggy guy right about now. Tell me that at least he has extensive and successful experience leading and managing a major public or private enterprise requiring the kinds of executive skills that are important in running our Liberal party as a prelude to taking back our natural position as The Governing Party and then running the largest organization in Canada, the federal government.

- Mr. Client, I'd really like to tell you that but I can't. The truth is that Iggy has never run anything other than his mouth, being the head academic at a boutique academic department called the Harvard Kennedy School of International Relations. Iggy is that classic pedantic egghead who likes to indulge in paralysis by analysis and who can't do so teaches instead. Remember what Robert F. Townsend wrote in "Up the Organization!"? He observed "The trouble with graduates of Harvard Business School is that they want to to start at the top and then move up." Iggy is the same.

- Teddy, you dumb, incompetent, gullible moron, before I kick you out of my office for trying to foist this totally unqualified pig in a poke off on me and then I call a real executive recruiter who will find me a qualified individual with the requisite knowledge, experience and skills for this job, is there anything - anything at all - that might redeem this Iggy character and therefore you as well in my eyes?

- Certainly, Mr. Client, the big thing about Iggy is that he is said by some to be much like our former leader Pierre Trudeau, our Philosopher King who kept us in power and in the trough for 16 years! OK, he is actually ten years older than Trudeau was when he became leader and he has much less Canadian experience as well as even less political and governmental and managerial experience and he is less colourful and charismatic and sexy. But some of our deep Liberal thinkers believe we can pass him off to a innocent and ignorant public as the second coming of Pierre Trudeau himself and thereby win power again.

- Teddy, get the fuck out of here. Trudeau was an economic disaster who bankrupted the country to pay off public sector monopoly unions and pander to every political interest group in existence, strangled the economy in exceessive taxation and bureaucratic red tape, bungled and weakened our most important diplomatic and trade relationships, and sowed serious problems in terms of national unity and identity with his official multiculturalism crap, the NEP, FIRA, the Charter of all rights and no responsbilities and other misguided policies which have now been mostly abandoned by even the Liberals. Historians have long concluded that this Trudeau was a disaster for Canada and even the average Canadian is finally catching on to the fraud that was Peter Waterhole. If you think I'll pay you a dime for a totally unqualified candidate like this Iggy guy - whose only "qualification" is that he is something like another guy who was totally unqualified - you must be smoking the weed of wisdom. Fuck off and take Iggy with you.

Other than that, Nocrap, I would have no problem presenting Ignatieff on a short list of qualified candiates for Liberal leadership.

Have you considered changing your name from "Nocrap" to "Allcrap" or perhaps "Useful Liberal Idiot"?

Have you considered changing your name from "Nocrap" to "Allcrap" or perhaps "Useful Liberal Idiot"?

Hmmm...don't quite know how to answer that, except that I wonder what kind of companies you represent when you are unable to argue a point without the use of profanity.

That being said, I am not a Liberal. I once ranted about the Liberals, but only because anytime I criticized the CPC, I was always accused of being...well, I can't repeat most of the names I was called...but many of them can be found in your posting.

I voted Liberal for the first time in the last election because I as yet have no confidence in Stephen Harper's ability to govern, and was not blown away by Jack Layton. I agree with 'Iggy's' statement that most Canadians are not ready to move to the right, including myself; so may have to look to the Liberals in future; but only if they can present a viable alternative to the Chretien era.

I never voted for Trudeau though I do have a lot of respect for the man.

So.....

-Teddy, I do have a modest amount of enthusiasm for this Iggy guy right about now. A Harvard professor still carries a lot of weight in the political and corporate world, and it took watching his country fall apart due to government corruption, that allowed a Reform Party hybrid to become a governing body; to bring him home.

[geoffrey]

What will Iggy do though? Win another two or three seats in Ontario?

He won't win in French Quebec. Like I said, where other than French Quebec can the Liberal's win a seat? At all...

It's a sad situation for the Liberals, with far reaching consequences. The west will never be represented by the natural governing party again.

Will the west be ok with second class status? Will the west be ok with being governed by a party with a Quebec/Ontario focus? Will the west be ok with financially supporting the rest of the country even though they will not have any say in the decisions in Ottawa?

For these reasons, the Liberals will likely not form a majority government for a long time. You do need to pick up Western seats in order to form a majority. Not happening. With the amount of population leaving the east to come to Alberta, it's likely that the Alberta influence will grow substantially. We are already shortchanged a handful of seats. BC is the most under-represented province in Canada. Correct these problems and the Liberals are even further moved towards irrelevance.

Dion is their best hope in the short term. He can at least pick up a few seats. Iggy, while a better PM probably, will not gain anything for the LPC.

[Steve]

"'I'm running against Stephen Harper's idea of Canada' Ignatieff told his supporters.

Ignatieff says he believes Canadians voted the Conservative government into power in January out of a desire for change but he added that the election result does not represent an ideological shift to the right amoung the electorate but a conditional approval akin to letting him 'drive the car around the block a couple of times'"

Guaranteed election loss right there. I hope he wins and runs with it.

We don't even need to bring up his Ukrainophobia or stances on torture - his arrogance is all Harper needs to pull off a majority.

[Nocrap]

"'I'm running against Stephen Harper's idea of Canada' Ignatieff told his supporters.

Ignatieff says he believes Canadians voted the Conservative government into power in January out of a desire for change but he added that the election result does not represent an ideological shift to the right amoung the electorate but a conditional approval akin to letting him 'drive the car around the block a couple of times'"

Guaranteed election loss right there. I hope he wins and runs with it.

We don't even need to bring up his Ukrainophobia or stances on torture - his arrogance is all Harper needs to pull off a majority.

his arrogance is all Harper needs to pull off a majority

Sorry Steve, but Mr. Harper already has arrogance in the bag. The reason I like to put Liberal hopefuls out there is for this kind of input though.

I liked a lot of what Mr. Ignatieff had to say, but pride myself on at least trying to be an informed voter. I will now research his feelings on torture, since two posters have mentioned that, and if it is as you say, than I would definitely stay clear.

I was undecided last election until Mr. Harper's infamous speech was made public. I read it and winced at his remarks, but almost believed his explanation that it was meant to be tongue in cheek. However, it was after researching the National Citizens Coalition that I immediately jumped off the Harper bandwagon. The fact that he ever belonged to such an organization was bad enough...but it's former (and perhaps still current since they haven't replaced him in four years) president??!!! Egads!

If Ignatieff does win the Liberal leadership and turns out to be as bad as Harper in his views, than I guess I'll vote NDP.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Imagine if you will myself as the executive recruiter presenting Iggy Ignatieff's resume and qualifications to my client, the electorate. It would go something like this:

- Then I presume that if this guy wants to lead Canada without having lived here he at least has compensated for his national ignorance by being an expert politician with great experience and results in wooing the electorate and performing in parliament?

Fuck off and take Iggy with you.

Ha ha. Good one. However I have a friend who was a government recruiter a few decades back & had this little fable to relate too:

- Hey I have a great employee you'll love.

- Ok ... let's start off with his education.

- Well actually he dropped out of University.

- Hmm ... Well what's he doing right now?

- He living with his parents & he & his buddy are working in his parent's garage.

- Go on..

- Well you know that huge computer that takes up the entire second floor in this building? They say they can get it down to a few pounds & that in a few years every home in the civilized world will have one & every worker will be using one for their jobs ... right on their desk!

- Sounds like a bit of a nutjob, frankly. What we're looking for is a University graduate that has joined an organization & is steadily working his way up the ranks. THAT'S a valuable employee. Forget this guy.

- So I can tell Bill Gates he's not going to be hired?

- You bet ... we need someone with corporate vision.

Added to that my friend the scientific researcher shared this little story with me:

The lab has a group of nine chimps in a cage. They start offering them bananas through the cage bars. However, every time a chimp reaches out to grab the banana they send a shock through the cage.

Eventually all of the chimps no longer try reaching for a banana when it is offered.

Then they introduced a new chimp into the cage & held out a banana. As soon as he reached for it, all the other chimps jumped on him & started beating him up. They didn't want the shock.

One by one, they replaced every one of the original nine chimps in the cage with a new chimp.

And every time they did, the chimps jumped on the new chimp if he reached for the banana, even though by the time they had replaced all of the chimps, not one of them had every received a shock for getting the banana.

It's just the way thinds were done around this cage. New chimp ... jump on him.

That is unfortunately the way of most people "rising through the ranks" & having "experience".

Oftentimes new blood is the only way to move forward.

I say "go Michael"... you're our best hope in decades.

[scribblet]

"'I'm running against Stephen Harper's idea of Canada' Ignatieff told his supporters.

Ignatieff says he believes Canadians voted the Conservative government into power in January out of a desire for change but he added that the election result does not represent an ideological shift to the right amoung the electorate but a conditional approval akin to letting him 'drive the car around the block a couple of times'"

Guaranteed election loss right there. I hope he wins and runs with it.

We don't even need to bring up his Ukrainophobia or stances on torture - his arrogance is all Harper needs to pull off a majority.

LOL, if he should get the leadership, the campaign ads for the next election should be really interesting. (Godfrey is bowing out of the race now).

check this out for some decent Rex Murphy commentary, about 43 minutes in..

http://www.cbc.ca/clips/national/thenational.ram

[Nocrap]

"'I'm running against Stephen Harper's idea of Canada' Ignatieff told his supporters.

Ignatieff says he believes Canadians voted the Conservative government into power in January out of a desire for change but he added that the election result does not represent an ideological shift to the right amoung the electorate but a conditional approval akin to letting him 'drive the car around the block a couple of times'"

Guaranteed election loss right there. I hope he wins and runs with it.

We don't even need to bring up his Ukrainophobia or stances on torture - his arrogance is all Harper needs to pull off a majority.

LOL, if he should get the leadership, the campaign ads for the next election should be really interesting. (Godfrey is bowing out of the race now).

check this out for some decent Rex Murphy commentary, about 43 minutes in..

http://www.cbc.ca/clips/national/thenational.ram

Like it or not, Ignatieff is still a strong candidate. Mainstream Canadians are centre to centre-left, and will never jump off the deepend at the right side of the pool. We gave the Liberals their time-out for misbehaving and it will be a completely different contest next time around. What is interesting is that the media is not pitting Ignatieff against other Liberal hopefuls, so much as they are pitting him against Stephen Harper. A recent poll shows that if there were an election today, 40% would vote CPC and 35% Liberal - and the Liberals don't even have a leader. If they get a strong opponent, look out!

[Steve]

Like it or not, Ignatieff is still a strong candidate.

No, he's not. He has not shown any ability to think beyond tired old cliches like the ones you quote. He has failed to realize that no one cares that he's against Stephen Harper. Sure, he's had a lengthy career as an academic - but that does not make him a good politician or prime minister. He's just another tired old Liberal ready to rehash the same old garbage from the 1970s. The Trudeau era is over - get used to it.

Mainstream Canadians are centre to centre-left, and will never jump off the deepend at the right side of the pool.

Right now, the CPC is the centre.

A recent poll shows that if there were an election today, 40% would vote CPC and 35% Liberal - and the Liberals don't even have a leader.

Source?

[apollo19]

What will Iggy do though? Win another two or three seats in Ontario?

He won't win in French Quebec. Like I said, where other than French Quebec can the Liberal's win a seat? At all...

It's a sad situation for the Liberals, with far reaching consequences. The west will never be represented by the natural governing party again.

Will the west be ok with second class status? Will the west be ok with being governed by a party with a Quebec/Ontario focus? Will the west be ok with financially supporting the rest of the country even though they will not have any say in the decisions in Ottawa?

For these reasons, the Liberals will likely not form a majority government for a long time. You do need to pick up Western seats in order to form a majority. Not happening. With the amount of population leaving the east to come to Alberta, it's likely that the Alberta influence will grow substantially. We are already shortchanged a handful of seats. BC is the most under-represented province in Canada. Correct these problems and the Liberals are even further moved towards irrelevance.

Dion is their best hope in the short term. He can at least pick up a few seats. Iggy, while a better PM probably, will not gain anything for the LPC.

I don't know about the idea that Ignatieff won't be able to pick up enough seats for them, because I think he definately can. I've seen him in several different situations which he has managed quite well, even when you would think he would be out of it as a Harvard professor. Also, there are many seats in Ontario which were somewhat close last time that would flip back to the Liberals with either a decent clean leader at the helm or a few outbreaks by people like Cheryl Gallant. Don't forget that not only are BC and Alberta under-represented, but Ontario is as well so the seat count should grow here also. One last thing -- I see plenty of remarks and ideas about Alberta becoming the "new capitol" or Canada; however, don't forget that Ontario has around 13 million people and Alberta has around 3. It will be a LONG time until Alberta exerts influence equivalent equal to what Quebec has today, so keep looking for the Liberals to hold on to their strongholds out here.

[Montgomery Burns]

Nocrap, I don't mean to be finicky, but why is this topic in the provincial politics section?

I understand some topics can be difficult to decide what part of the forum they should be in...but this looks like it should be in the federal politics section.

[geoffrey]

I don't know about the idea that Ignatieff won't be able to pick up enough seats for them, because I think he definately can. I've seen him in several different situations which he has managed quite well, even when you would think he would be out of it as a Harvard professor. Also, there are many seats in Ontario which were somewhat close last time that would flip back to the Liberals with either a decent clean leader at the helm or a few outbreaks by people like Cheryl Gallant. Don't forget that not only are BC and Alberta under-represented, but Ontario is as well so the seat count should grow here also. One last thing -- I see plenty of remarks and ideas about Alberta becoming the "new capitol" or Canada; however, don't forget that Ontario has around 13 million people and Alberta has around 3. It will be a LONG time until Alberta exerts influence equivalent equal to what Quebec has today, so keep looking for the Liberals to hold on to their strongholds out here.

Apollo,

Thank you for the comments on my post, but I must take issue with a few statements. A few seats in Ontario isn't going to cut it for the Liberals. The CPC is currently building up their power in Ontario, not losing it. It will take a very results oriented leader in order to take the CPC out of power. Iggy is more idealistic, and people just are more for people promising results than people with vision in today's world.

The seats are more under represented in BC than anywhere else, by a huge margin. But your right, Ontario is likely to benefit too, and mostly in Liberal friendly areas.

I don't see many people seriously thinking that Alberta would become the political capital. Not happening. From an economic perspective however, Calgary is definitely the driving force behind the Canadian economy now, and for many more reasons than just oil. Ontario is losing relevance without a doubt, but they are a long way from becoming irrelevant in the financial picture.

That doesn't change the fact that Albertans per capita contribute considerably more into confederation than anyone else, and see the least back. The Calgary to Edmonton corridor is has been reported to be the richest region in the world (though I dispute this somewhat).

Back towards the topic, the Liberals need a leader that clearly outlines what the party will do for them. They are currently viewed as a party without a clear agenda. We all know what the Liberals stand for, but what will they do to better my life? When? How?

This is why the conservatives are succeeding and will continue to do so. No one wants another Trudeau right now, with dreams of grandeaur for Canada and a great national vision (that only resulted in alienating the West and Quebec further). People want results for themselves and their family. Iggy doesn't offer this.

[Nocrap]

I don't know about the idea that Ignatieff won't be able to pick up enough seats for them, because I think he definately can. I've seen him in several different situations which he has managed quite well, even when you would think he would be out of it as a Harvard professor. Also, there are many seats in Ontario which were somewhat close last time that would flip back to the Liberals with either a decent clean leader at the helm or a few outbreaks by people like Cheryl Gallant. Don't forget that not only are BC and Alberta under-represented, but Ontario is as well so the seat count should grow here also. One last thing -- I see plenty of remarks and ideas about Alberta becoming the "new capitol" or Canada; however, don't forget that Ontario has around 13 million people and Alberta has around 3. It will be a LONG time until Alberta exerts influence equivalent equal to what Quebec has today, so keep looking for the Liberals to hold on to their strongholds out here.

Apollo,

Thank you for the comments on my post, but I must take issue with a few statements. A few seats in Ontario isn't going to cut it for the Liberals. The CPC is currently building up their power in Ontario, not losing it. It will take a very results oriented leader in order to take the CPC out of power. Iggy is more idealistic, and people just are more for people promising results than people with vision in today's world.

The seats are more under represented in BC than anywhere else, by a huge margin. But your right, Ontario is likely to benefit too, and mostly in Liberal friendly areas.

I don't see many people seriously thinking that Alberta would become the political capital. Not happening. From an economic perspective however, Calgary is definitely the driving force behind the Canadian economy now, and for many more reasons than just oil. Ontario is losing relevance without a doubt, but they are a long way from becoming irrelevant in the financial picture.

That doesn't change the fact that Albertans per capita contribute considerably more into confederation than anyone else, and see the least back. The Calgary to Edmonton corridor is has been reported to be the richest region in the world (though I dispute this somewhat).

Back towards the topic, the Liberals need a leader that clearly outlines what the party will do for them. They are currently viewed as a party without a clear agenda. We all know what the Liberals stand for, but what will they do to better my life? When? How?

This is why the conservatives are succeeding and will continue to do so. No one wants another Trudeau right now, with dreams of grandeaur for Canada and a great national vision (that only resulted in alienating the West and Quebec further). People want results for themselves and their family. Iggy doesn't offer this.

Nocrap, I don't mean to be finicky, but why is this topic in the provincial politics section?

Sorry. I meant to put it in Federal Politics but am still stumbling around and I guess I stumbled in here.

Source for my poll

Latest Results

If that doesn't work go to the homepage and scroll down. There are two polls currently in progress.

Home Page

I'm not really a great believer or follower of polls, but was reading something else there, so I thought what the heck?

This just represents the results as of today, so many of you can go over and vote and change the results - I rarely visit that site. Besides, even official polls are accused of being pro-Liberal or pro-CPC, so I guess they don't mean much.

[Steve]

This just represents the results as of today, so many of you can go over and vote and change the results - I rarely visit that site. Besides, even official polls are accused of being pro-Liberal or pro-CPC, so I guess they don't mean much.

That poll is not credible. It's online, seemingly attached to a clearly left-leaning website, and it doesn't even have a 'Bloc Quebecois' option.

[Teddy Ballgame]

This just represents the results as of today, so many of you can go over and vote and change the results - I rarely visit that site. Besides, even official polls are accused of being pro-Liberal or pro-CPC, so I guess they don't mean much.

That poll is not credible. It's online, seemingly attached to a clearly left-leaning website, and it doesn't even have a 'Bloc Quebecois' option.

- Steve ... Of course that poll is not credible. Nothing that ALLCRAP has to say about Harper or the CPC is credible which is why I have christened him/her/it ALLCRAP.

However, if you click on the Home Page of the referenced site you will beable to review the several scientifically designed and conducted national opinion polls taken by reputable polling organizations since the January 23rd election and these are reliable and credible.

What you will find is a growing tide of support for the Conservatives and for Harper as PM, a dwindling level of support for the Liberals, and a slight increase in NDP popularity.

The most recent poll - taken just last week by Environics - gives the Conservatives 41% national support, the Liberals 22% and the NDP 21%. It also gives Harper a 60% approval rating as PM which is quite an astounding increase from his 33% approval rating as Opposition Leader just last Fall.

You are best advised to ignore anything spewed by ALLCRAP on this subject since the poor soul has what is clearly an unhealthy animus bordering on distemper and a delusional and inaccurate view in regard to the CPC which he hates and the Liberals whom he adores. I am not sure what PIGs (political interest groups) ALLCRAP represents but they are clearly of the hard left, big government, snout in the public trough, I'm entitled to my entitlements variety.

[Canuck E Stan]

Latest poll from a more crediable source:

Environics 31/03/2006 Liberals-22 Conservatives-41 NDP-21 Bloc-10 Green-5

Stephen Harper and his new government solidify voter support across the country as they begin to govern.

4/6/2006 6:15:50 PM

Stephen Harper and his new government solidify voter support across the country as they begin to govern.

OTTAWA: Weeks into their new mandate, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his government have solidified its support among Canadians, according to a new survey by the Environics Research Group conducted in March.

Party Support. This latest survey shows that, nationally, 41 percent of eligible and decided Canadian voters would support the Conservative Party if an election were held today, compared with the 36 percent it earned in the January 23rd federal election. The Liberal Party, now under interim leadership, has seen its support drop to 22 percent (down 8 points), and is now in a statistical tie with the New Democratic Party, which has seen its support edge upwards to 21 percent (up 3 points). Support for the Bloc Québécois in Quebec is stable at 44 percent (up 2 points). Relatively few (13%) voters are currently undecided about which party might deserve their support.

[scribblet]

Not many on line polls are credible, they allow multiple voting by removing cookies, the owner of that site is a hard core liberal, so it is biased. That site sure has a couple of moonbats in the U.S./other forums, my goodness, thank goodness this site doesn't have them here - then I really would whoops my cookies LOL