Eu, France And The Road Map

[Craig Read]

Firmly behind the push to blacklist Hamas, which would make it more difficult for the organization to raise funds in Europe, are the U.K., Italy, the Netherlands and Spain.

All the way at the other end -- still making a specious argument about how stigmatizing Hamas's "political wing" would be counterproductive -- is the Jacques Chirac/Dominique de Villepin duo. (The French president and foreign minister craft foreign policy all on their own, and should be seen in this field as almost apart from the mostly able government of Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin).

The peace plan was badly damaged by Hamas's suicide bombing of a Jerusalem bus last Tuesday, which left 21 civilians dead, and Arafat's opportunistic bid this week to unseat Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, or at least render him powerless. The divided PA has not gone after the terrorist groups, as the road map calls for, leaving Israel to do the dirty work.

Palestinians or at least their leadership do not desire peace.

Peace through military ie. Israeli victory is the ONLY solution for the region.

The EU which funds Arafat $300 million per year should by and large just shut up.

[FastNed]

The "Palestinian Question" is one of the greatest scams in history. For fifty some years, these people have been pawns; pawns to despotic Arab Leaders, the Bureaucrats of the UN (who have made them perpetual refugees), self-appointed leaders (who have made billions exploiting them) and self-serving international politicians seeking National advantage from their plight.

The single greatest mistake of the Bush Presidency has been to let his moral and religious convictions convince him to involve America in this issue. Note that the Road Map was printed in Saudi Arabia!

The Palestinian people have been convinced that Terrorism will bring them victory and until they are dissuaded from this folly, there can be no peace.

[Craig Read]

Ned this is true, and the issue has to be resolved. It is a matter of: PLA leadership which will not happen unless the US aids the ejection of Arafat and the peaceful transfer to Abbas and legitimate leaders; the curtailment of funding especially from the UN and EU of military aka refugee camps that house Palestinian hatred; and lastly the creation of institutions and a division of powers in Palestine so that a functioning state has some chance.

The US must get involved in Palestine - I agree the issue is abused by the EU and their PLA friends, but the issue has such geo-political repercussions that engagement, however hopeless it appears, is necessary.

What the EU and Canada need to do is to help change occur not fund terrorists.

[theloniusfleabag]

Intifada has yielded no results except a rising death toll for years. (I urge you to read 'Intifada' by Ze'ev Sciff and Ehud Ya'ari, two Israeli reporters). Partly Israel and the US are to blame for rewarding terrorism by allowing it to foment negotiations.

Both sides are to blame, to a certain degree, for both believe strongly in the notion of retribution above and beyond truth.

Let it be noted, however, that all sides have no problem with murder to further causes.

[Craig Read]

I disagree. Israeli actions to protect their nation state, whilst at time extreme are necessary. Israeli's admit that a Pal. state is inevitable. The PLO has shown no maturity to handle such a mandate.

War is inevitable unless the PLO/A reform and move towards a representative system of governance and importantly admit that Israel shall, will and has a RIGHT to exist.

Until this time, conflict is unavoidable and will neverending.

[theloniusfleabag]

I find it odd indeed that the 'road map' for the Middle East was 'printed' in Saudi Arabia, for no Muslim nation can print Israel on a map. Iraq, Kuwait, in fact all Islamic nations refuse to acknowledge the existence of Israel, and instead refer to it as 'the Zionist Entity'.

I myself am pro-Jewish yet anti-zionist.

There is no notion of 'separation of church and state' in the middle east, be it Jewish or Muslim.

Israel would drop democracy faster than you can say 'Matza-ball soup' the second they become the electoral minority.

Hence the wall.

One can only say 'Israel has the RIGHT to exist only if one believes that G-d himself decreed that they do. Very difficult to prove in court, so it is up to people such as Uzi Landau (who was quoted this weekend saying in regard to the targeted killings of militants 'We should be killing them at a faster rate) to enact the will of Man, under the dubious auspices of 'the will of G-d' (or Allah, whomever you favour).

[Craig Read]

What are you talking about ? Israel is a democratic imperfect liberal state that has a developed economy and which was guaranteed its existence in 1917 in the Balfour Declaration. It is not going anywhere in case you did not notice. And for the preening Canadians who whisper about root causes and fret about 'why don't they love me', your wonderful Useless Nattering Org agreed to Israel's existence in 1947.

It has also, justly, declared open war on Hamas.

I suppose Canada will support Israel through more anti-Semtic media ravings, visits to Mosques by local talknig heads, University protests by fat 20 somethings and funneling more money to the world's ugliest terrorist, Arafat and his uglier policies of lacing 17 year old girls bra's with Semtex and telling them to kill the infidel - and oh here by the way is a cheque for your family. Thanks for the help.

Take a look on the Internet at the beheading of Daniel Pearl - the freaks shot the video of his head being cut off and rejoiced as they did it. Root cause ? They are psychopathic freaks with nothing else to do. How is that for an answer. This is what they want to do to every Jew-American-Infidel-Western Female whore. This is what the Jews have been facing since 1948.

The maniacal fanaticism of cave dwelling freaks.

Damn right Israel should exist, and damn right they should wage war to win.

You never wage war to have a draw.

[FastNed]

You know, Craig, there is one thing I am quite certain of and that is that the word "Jew" with all its connotations does not apply to the Sabras of Israel. The historic jew who was oppressed for several thousand years and responded with yiddish plaints from the Book of Job no longer exists except as an elder group which is quickly passing.

For the last fifty years, those born there or raised from childhood there are a different breed and very few have bothered to notice this. They paid with their blood for the land which they hold and the wimps want to give it to those Arabs who ran away. Certainly, those officers of the IDF all of whom take their oath of office atop Masada with the words "Never Again!" are just going to roll over and play dead for the Palestinians or other Moslems who wish them dead. Yeah, sure! Just like America is going to roll over and die!

I have been all over Israel, from hang gliding in the Golan to the nudist colonies in the Sinai (before they gave it back) and I felt right at home with the Sabras - they are crazy like Americans are crazy. They will no more give Israel to the Arabs than we will give America back to the Indians.

The Palestinians, who never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity are a prime example of the Arab delusional mentality and are in the process of discarding their last opportunity from America. When they have done so, America will no longer restrain Israel and when a tipping point is reached, that will be the end of it!

[Craig Read]

Well look at Israel compared to the Arab world - from nothing and desert they have created an export strong economy and civil society.

Sure Israel has its shortcomings and xenophobic zealots. But in general the Israeli's i know are largely secular, working hard and willing to trade land for peace once the Palestinians stop behaving like madmen and start building representative institutions.

In 50 years the Palestinians have not created one positive institution, economic product or market or anything other than terror, poverty and hate.

All with UNO blessing of course.

[KrustyKidd]

In 50 years the Palestinians have not created one positive institution, economic product or market or anything other than terror, poverty and hate.

Make that the whole Arab world Craig. Look in your car, under the sofa or in your closet. Not one thing made in any Arab country. Good thing they have oil. And it's all the fault of the Jew. They are so pathetic that 3 million Jews can keep them down, what? 250 million Arabs downtrtodden by 3 million Jews. What a bunch of winners.

No sense in taking help from the USA. They are backward infidels. No sense in talking real peace with Israel, when the kids find out how we've been screwing them for 60 years all hell's gonna break loose in Gaza. Beside's, we'd have to join the 21st century and actually get a job and maybe keep an appointment.

[Craig Read]

KK, i agree, many interesting books out by for instance Landes and others that point out that due to cultural inertia, religion and access to easy trade, or resource money, many potential vibrant areas of the world are deadweights.

Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong [until recently], and other nations less well endowed [think Holland, Ireland, yes even Canada to some degree], have done much better.

Easy money and bad politics is a dangerous mix. It allows Islamo-Fascism to breed uncontested.

I agree, about your 'winners' comment. I am tired of hearing apologia for a failed philosophy.

Hey boys in the Arab world - the Crusades are over, the Ottoman empire is extinguised, Mohammad is dead - get over it and join the modern world.