Becoming a Christian

[Leafless]

Shariah Law and Christianity do not mix and could very well mean death if you convert.

http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_3620352

Unbelievable!

[JerrySeinfeld]

Shariah Law and Christianity do not mix and could very well mean death if you convert.

http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_3620352

Unbelievable!

I heard about that. Not surprised.

Just watch the clock - it's only a matter of time before this thread is peppered with alologists rushing to assure us that there are plenty of moderate muslims and that christians are just as bad if not worse. WIll probably cite ancient history (literally) to bakc their point...

[geoffrey]

Shariah Law and Christianity do not mix and could very well mean death if you convert.

http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_3620352

Unbelievable!

I heard about that. Not surprised.

Just watch the clock - it's only a matter of time before this thread is peppered with alologists rushing to assure us that there are plenty of moderate muslims and that christians are just as bad if not worse. WIll probably cite ancient history (literally) to bakc their point...

That's definitely trouble.

By the way, I'd never bring up things like Yugoslavia (if ancient history is only 7 years ago, then I guess I'm irrelevant) unless you specifically asked for examples of genocide by Christians against Muslims. You still haven't refuted this one by the way...

I will restate, anyone that kills for any reason needs to be dealt with the same. Relgious motivation or otherwise I personally don't see the difference.

Sounds like for you Jerry, you woudln't be happy until we killed off all the Muslims or forced them to relinquish their religious beliefs... when's the last time we've heard a religious group blamed for all the problems of a nation?? That attitude doesn't fly with me.

People should be able to practice whatever the hell they want, until the commit a crime, and then they should be arrested. No concept of detaining/arresting/killing Muslims because they might commit a crime in the future is acceptable by any terms.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Leafless,

Shariah Law and Christianity do not mix and could very well mean death if you convert.

http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_3620352

Unbelievable!

You are only hearing about this now? Proselytizing and converting have carried the death penalty in many countries.

Or is it only news now that there is a 'bash Islam' bandwagon on which to hang this headline?

By the way, I wouldn't quote newspapers from Salt Lake City too much...(Mormonism is one of the kookier religions out there)

[JerrySeinfeld]

By the way, I'd never bring up things like Yugoslavia (if ancient history is only 7 years ago, then I guess I'm irrelevant) unless you specifically asked for examples of genocide by Christians against Muslims. You still haven't refuted this one by the way...

Localized issue. Milosovic didn't send civilians to saudi arabia to kill muslims. Today's muslim multinational seff-detonation program is a completely different kettle of fish.

Sounds like for you Jerry, you woudln't be happy until we killed off all the Muslims or forced them to relinquish their religious beliefs... when's the last time we've heard a religious group blamed for all the problems of a nation?? That attitude doesn't fly with me.

Don't speak for me - speak for yourself.

People should be able to practice whatever the hell they want, until the commit a crime, and then they should be arrested. No concept of detaining/arresting/killing Muslims because they might commit a crime in the future is acceptable by any terms.

Who is suggesting that?

[geoffrey]

By the way, I'd never bring up things like Yugoslavia (if ancient history is only 7 years ago, then I guess I'm irrelevant) unless you specifically asked for examples of genocide by Christians against Muslims. You still haven't refuted this one by the way...

Localized issue. Milosovic didn't send civilians to saudi arabia to kill muslims. Today's muslim multinational seff-detonation program is a completely different kettle of fish.

Sure, but Milsoevic sent armed militia's into neighbouring countries and his own country to kill Muslims specifically (read up on Sebreniza, 8000 Muslim men systematically executed for their racial composition).

This is a much worse kettle of fish than the the few suicide bombers.

If you actually think all Muslims want to be suicide bombers and kill everyone, you live a very sad, sheltered, paranoid life.

People should be able to practice whatever the hell they want, until the commit a crime, and then they should be arrested. No concept of detaining/arresting/killing Muslims because they might commit a crime in the future is acceptable by any terms.

Who is suggesting that?

What are you suggesting by calling all Muslims terrorists then? If they are such, then surely we sould lock them up or do something about it?

[Leafless]

theloniusfleabag

You wrote- " You are only hearing about this now? Proselytizing and converting have carried the death penalities in many countries."

As a matter of fact I do vagluey remeber this as possibly a historical fact but never actually dreamt it is being carried on to-day.

But this raises an interesting question and that is what are our troops doing in Afghanistan?

We are supposedly there to help the country along with democracy and it's associated freedoms.

But now I feel this is a complete impossibility due to the fact the countries backward laws and religion are intertwined with Islam in a cultural sense.

I think Muslims in general are a lost cause and personally am no longer supporting our democratic quest to help them upgrade to modern times with our style of democracy and freedoms. This cause incidently is not being supported vigorously by Muslims in democratic capitalist countries as I can now see clearly why.

Their political baggage includes there own government and religion wrapped in a neat little cultural package. Who knows for sure what goes on behind the scenes in Muslim communities that escapes the scrutiny of our laws and police departments?

I think it's time to bring back our Canadian troops immediately.

[JerrySeinfeld]

By the way, I'd never bring up things like Yugoslavia (if ancient history is only 7 years ago, then I guess I'm irrelevant) unless you specifically asked for examples of genocide by Christians against Muslims. You still haven't refuted this one by the way...

Localized issue. Milosovic didn't send civilians to saudi arabia to kill muslims. Today's muslim multinational seff-detonation program is a completely different kettle of fish.

Sure, but Milsoevic sent armed militia's into neighbouring countries and his own country to kill Muslims specifically (read up on Sebreniza, 8000 Muslim men systematically executed for their racial composition).

This is a much worse kettle of fish than the the few suicide bombers.

If you actually think all Muslims want to be suicide bombers and kill everyone, you live a very sad, sheltered, paranoid life.

People should be able to practice whatever the hell they want, until the commit a crime, and then they should be arrested. No concept of detaining/arresting/killing Muslims because they might commit a crime in the future is acceptable by any terms.

Who is suggesting that?

What are you suggesting by calling all Muslims terrorists then? If they are such, then surely we sould lock them up or do something about it?

When did I call all muslims terrorists? Stick to reality.

[Wilber]

Shariah Law and Christianity do not mix and could very well mean death if you convert.

http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_3620352

Unbelievable!

Not unbelieveable but about where Christianity was 500 years ago. Hopefully they will grow out of it. Unfortunately, in a global economy with such things as jet aircraft, the internet and WMD's, I doubt that they will have 500 years to do it, or that the rest of the world will be able to wait for them.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Leafless,

But this raises an interesting question and that is what are our troops doing in Afghanistan?

We are supposedly there to help the country along with democracy and it's associated freedoms.

Indeed, but 'helping' means that they are/were trying, or even actually wanted it. Who told you they did?

The Afghani Mujahideen did not fight the Soviets for over 10 bloody years because they wished they had 'democracy and freedom'. Hell, most of them don't even want a stable, central government. They just wanted the Soviets out, and the land to be ruled 'the old fashioned way'. Which, in this case, is Sharia Law. Mostly done at the tribal level, so no one really hears a lot about it.

Why is Canada there? Well, the Taliban became a 'state-sponsor' of terrorism, of this there is little doubt. They also imposed Islamic law and interpretations of the Koran far too severely, in the eyes of both the world, and the inhabitants of Afghanistan. (If you'll recall, they outlawed music and kite-flying, and destroyed 2 huge statues of Buddha that were carved in a cliff-side thousands of years ago). The Taliban needed to be removed, certainly.

Why are western troops still there? Evidently, UNOCAL wanted to build a gas pipeline across the country, but it is believed to be near impossible to build and maintain it without a strong, central, pro-US Afghani gov't.

[Leafless]

theloniusfleabag

You wrote- " Why are western troops still there? Evidently, UNOCAL wanted to build a gas pipeline across the country, but it is believed to be near impossible to build and maintain it without a strong central, pro U.S. Afghani gov't."

That pipeline was in the works for a long time but definite proof would be required to establish what you are saying as factual and true and would be hard to acquire due to the antics of Bin Laden and the Taliban and the war on terrorism.

[piercj2]

To be honest, Islam is seen as almost a joke in many people's eyes. I mean nations (Iran, Iraq) whom are primarily Muslims are constantly opressing, murdering and hating eachoether, while maganging to reach out and even harm other nations. Weather they are blowing up other christians, blowing up themselves along with others, opressing themselves into the ground, ecccttt.. and then going crazy when a Dutch paper makes a lighthearted remark about the prophet Muhamad, in essence, it all really is a joke. I mean, its the 21st centruy, alot of Muslims need to realize that

[lost&outofcontrol]

That's definitely trouble.

By the way, I'd never bring up things like Yugoslavia (if ancient history is only 7 years ago, then I guess I'm irrelevant) unless you specifically asked for examples of genocide by Christians against Muslims. You still haven't refuted this one by the way...

I will restate, anyone that kills for any reason needs to be dealt with the same. Relgious motivation or otherwise I personally don't see the difference.

Sounds like for you Jerry, you woudln't be happy until we killed off all the Muslims or forced them to relinquish their religious beliefs... when's the last time we've heard a religious group blamed for all the problems of a nation?? That attitude doesn't fly with me.

People should be able to practice whatever the hell they want, until the commit a crime, and then they should be arrested. No concept of detaining/arresting/killing Muslims because they might commit a crime in the future is acceptable by any terms.

Hear, hear !

[geoffrey]

When did I call all muslims terrorists? Stick to reality.

Localized issue. Milosovic didn't send civilians to saudi arabia to kill muslims. Today's muslim multinational seff-detonation program is a completely different kettle of fish.

So besides maybe a few, their is an international muslim program to self-detonate?

Come on, you've said that the Islamic religious is inherently violent. If you believe that honestly, it would be irresponsibile to not lock up all those that refuse to denounce their beliefs. If you don't believe that, then stop saying ther is a "muslim multinational seff[sic]-detonation program."

Is Islam a violent religion or no?

[Montgomery Burns]

Is Islam a violent religion or no?

Of course it is.

[mcqueen625]

Dear Leafless,

Shariah Law and Christianity do not mix and could very well mean death if you convert.

http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_3620352

Unbelievable!

You are only hearing about this now? Proselytizing and converting have carried the death penalty in many countries.

Or is it only news now that there is a 'bash Islam' bandwagon on which to hang this headline?

By the way, I wouldn't quote newspapers from Salt Lake City too much...(Mormonism is one of the kookier religions out there)

Mormanism and Scientology are two things but Islam's goal is to spread their brand of fanatism across the whole world, to the exclusion of all other religions or beliefs. They preach death to all infidels as they choose to call anyone who does not believe in their stupid prophet. I for one believe in one God and his son Jesus Christ, and I could care less about Islam and their moronic fanatism. These nutcase will not be happy until all governments cower to their wishes. I think that Christianity is worth fighting and dying for, but I'm not about to strap a bomb to myself and walk into a crowd of innocent cililians as would a fanatical islamic.

[sami]

Mormanism and Scientology are two things but Islam's goal is to spread their brand of fanatism across the whole world, to the exclusion of all other religions or beliefs. They preach death to all infidels as they choose to call anyone who does not believe in their stupid prophet. I for one believe in one God and his son Jesus Christ, and I could care less about Islam and their moronic fanatism. These nutcase will not be happy until all governments cower to their wishes. I think that Christianity is worth fighting and dying for, but I'm not about to strap a bomb to myself and walk into a crowd of innocent cililians as would a fanatical islamic.

Wow! The ignorant and intolerant are now preaching about the ignorant and intolerant. You complain that Islam is intolerant and then you call my belief “moronic fanaticism” and my prophet “stupid”. You say you believe in “one God and his son Jesus Christ” and could care less about Islam. Didn’t you find that hypocritical? You realize that this post was about intolerance right?

Illiterate, uneducated people are taken advantage of all over the world by power hungry profiteers who care not for any religion, culture or morality. This barbaric law is not enforced in any other Muslim country in the world except for the well-documented medieval society of Afghanistan and still this becomes yet again a broad generalization about the beliefs of all Muslims. I do not believe in generalizations, they are usually used to spread hate. Nazi’s used it against the Jews, kkk against blacks, Hutus against Tutsis etc.

I do not sit here and pretend to ignore the inexcusable actions taken place around the world in the name of my religion. But I know it has little to do with religion and a lot to do with fear, ignorance, poverty, corruption and propaganda. I know this because I live in a free, tolerant and open society where I have access to knowledge and cultures that the ordinary Afghans do not. Most Afghans have never met a Christian or Jew and they are afraid of them and belief in the propaganda that is forced upon them under the veil of religious fatwas. If you can transport the lot of them to Canada, I am sure that their opinions would drastically change once they were exposed to a free and multicultural society. But we don’t have that option. All we can do is try to educate them on the idea of democracy and freedom.

What I don’t understand is how does someone living in this western society become just as intolerant. You have to be pretty damn ignorant wouldn’t you?

[Shakeyhands]

Mormanism and Scientology are two things but Islam's goal is to spread their brand of fanatism across the whole world, to the exclusion of all other religions or beliefs. They preach death to all infidels as they choose to call anyone who does not believe in their stupid prophet. I for one believe in one God and his son Jesus Christ, and I could care less about Islam and their moronic fanatism. These nutcase will not be happy until all governments cower to their wishes. I think that Christianity is worth fighting and dying for, but I'm not about to strap a bomb to myself and walk into a crowd of innocent cililians as would a fanatical islamic.

Wow! The ignorant and intolerant are now preaching about the ignorant and intolerant. You complain that Islam is intolerant and then you call my belief “moronic fanaticism” and my prophet “stupid”. You say you believe in “one God and his son Jesus Christ” and could care less about Islam. Didn’t you find that hypocritical? You realize that this post was about intolerance right?

Illiterate, uneducated people are taken advantage of all over the world by power hungry profiteers who care not for any religion, culture or morality. This barbaric law is not enforced in any other Muslim country in the world except for the well-documented medieval society of Afghanistan and still this becomes yet again a broad generalization about the beliefs of all Muslims. I do not believe in generalizations, they are usually used to spread hate. Nazi’s used it against the Jews, kkk against blacks, Hutus against Tutsis etc.

I do not sit here and pretend to ignore the inexcusable actions taken place around the world in the name of my religion. But I know it has little to do with religion and a lot to do with fear, ignorance, poverty, corruption and propaganda. I know this because I live in a free, tolerant and open society where I have access to knowledge and cultures that the ordinary Afghans do not. Most Afghans have never met a Christian or Jew and they are afraid of them and belief in the propaganda that is forced upon them under the veil of religious fatwas. If you can transport the lot of them to Canada, I am sure that their opinions would drastically change once they were exposed to a free and multicultural society. But we don’t have that option. All we can do is try to educate them on the idea of democracy and freedom.

What I don’t understand is how does someone living in this western society become just as intolerant. You have to be pretty damn ignorant wouldn’t you?

hmmm... good for you.

[Drea]

Mormanism and Scientology are two things but Islam's goal is to spread their brand of fanatism across the whole world, to the exclusion of all other religions or beliefs. They preach death to all infidels as they choose to call anyone who does not believe in their stupid prophet. I for one believe in one God and his son Jesus Christ, and I could care less about Islam and their moronic fanatism. These nutcase will not be happy until all governments cower to their wishes. I think that Christianity is worth fighting and dying for, but I'm not about to strap a bomb to myself and walk into a crowd of innocent cililians as would a fanatical islamic.

Wow! The ignorant and intolerant are now preaching about the ignorant and intolerant. You complain that Islam is intolerant and then you call my belief “moronic fanaticism” and my prophet “stupid”. You say you believe in “one God and his son Jesus Christ” and could care less about Islam. Didn’t you find that hypocritical? You realize that this post was about intolerance right?

Illiterate, uneducated people are taken advantage of all over the world by power hungry profiteers who care not for any religion, culture or morality. This barbaric law is not enforced in any other Muslim country in the world except for the well-documented medieval society of Afghanistan and still this becomes yet again a broad generalization about the beliefs of all Muslims. I do not believe in generalizations, they are usually used to spread hate. Nazi’s used it against the Jews, kkk against blacks, Hutus against Tutsis etc.

I do not sit here and pretend to ignore the inexcusable actions taken place around the world in the name of my religion. But I know it has little to do with religion and a lot to do with fear, ignorance, poverty, corruption and propaganda. I know this because I live in a free, tolerant and open society where I have access to knowledge and cultures that the ordinary Afghans do not. Most Afghans have never met a Christian or Jew and they are afraid of them and belief in the propaganda that is forced upon them under the veil of religious fatwas. If you can transport the lot of them to Canada, I am sure that their opinions would drastically change once they were exposed to a free and multicultural society. But we don’t have that option. All we can do is try to educate them on the idea of democracy and freedom.

What I don’t understand is how does someone living in this western society become just as intolerant. You have to be pretty damn ignorant wouldn’t you?

Fabulous post sami, thanks for a "voice of reason" in the chaos.

I have a friend in Iran and do worry about her. I've learned alot about her culture and what being a muslim means to her.

To her and her family, it's important that they follow the teachings of Mohammed, but equally important is her future -- I'm working with her parents and the Iranian community here to bring her to Canada in 2010.

Some people here will fear her, some will despise her, but she is willing to come here to try to make a future for herself.

[geoffrey]

The charges have been dismissed by the way.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...ghan060327.html

Just some crazy fundamentalists that he has to fear now. Good to see the institutions are secular though.

[sami]

The charges have been dismissed by the way.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...ghan060327.html

Just some crazy fundamentalists that he has to fear now. Good to see the institutions are secular though.

That is good to hear. It was not more 50 years ago the greatest democracy on Earth allowed black people to vote and even while we criticize other fledgling democracies our own records on gay rights is less then stellar. Afghans still live in a backwards culture. We need to give the moderates and liberals time to change their society. It can’t happen overnight.

[JerrySeinfeld]

The charges have been dismissed by the way.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...ghan060327.html

Just some crazy fundamentalists that he has to fear now. Good to see the institutions are secular though.

That is good to hear. It was not more 50 years ago the greatest democracy on Earth allowed black people to vote and even while we criticize other fledgling democracies our own records on gay rights is less then stellar. Afghans still live in a backwards culture. We need to give the moderates and liberals time to change their society. It can’t happen overnight.

Check your facts and ask yourself what EVEN MODERATE Muslims think about abortion, gay marriage or women's rights.

Don't like Pat Robertson? He's a puppydog compared to what the "moderate" muslim imams and clerics in Islamic countries would do to gays, and abortionists.

The get back to me on "tolerance".

Making the mistake of "tolerating" a religion that doesn't tolerate any of the western freedoms is a common but not-well-thought-out lefty contradiction.

[Drea]

Check your facts and ask yourself what EVEN MODERATE Muslims think about abortion, gay marriage or women's rights.

Don't like Pat Robertson? He's a puppydog compared to what the "moderate" muslim imams and clerics in Islamic countries would do to gays, and abortionists.

The get back to me on "tolerance".

Making the mistake of "tolerating" a religion that doesn't tolerate any of the western freedoms is a common but not-well-thought-out lefty contradiction.

It's not the Christian religion that is moderate -- it's the society that it's located in.

Here in the "west" we have the benefit of a secular society to keep religion in check.

Yes, Islam seems to be a more violent religion than Christianity but only because they don't have a population of people saying "you can't do that".

If 90% of our education was based on the Holy Bible then we would be as admant in our religion.

If there were no non-believers, the Pat Robertsons of the world would certainly run amok with their brand of religious fanaticism.

"Moderate" Christians like you only exist because of us non-believers, as do moderate muslims.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Check your facts and ask yourself what EVEN MODERATE Muslims think about abortion, gay marriage or women's rights.

Don't like Pat Robertson? He's a puppydog compared to what the "moderate" muslim imams and clerics in Islamic countries would do to gays, and abortionists.

The get back to me on "tolerance".

Making the mistake of "tolerating" a religion that doesn't tolerate any of the western freedoms is a common but not-well-thought-out lefty contradiction.

It's not the Christian religion that is moderate -- it's the society that it's located in.

Here in the "west" we have the benefit of a secular society to keep religion in check.

Yes, Islam seems to be a more violent religion than Christianity but only because they don't have a population of people saying "you can't do that".

If 90% of our education was based on the Holy Bible then we would be as admant in our religion.

If there were no non-believers, the Pat Robertsons of the world would certainly run amok with their brand of religious fanaticism.

"Moderate" Christians like you only exist because of us non-believers, as do moderate muslims.

Who said I was christian? I'm not.

And if you believe muslims only perpetrate violence in mostly muslim countries you'd be wrong - look at france and denmark.

Although, those ARE mostly muslim countries...so I take it back.

[sami]

Check your facts and ask yourself what EVEN MODERATE Muslims think about abortion, gay marriage or women's rights.

Don't like Pat Robertson? He's a puppydog compared to what the "moderate" muslim imams and clerics in Islamic countries would do to gays, and abortionists.

The get back to me on "tolerance".

Making the mistake of "tolerating" a religion that doesn't tolerate any of the western freedoms is a common but not-well-thought-out lefty contradiction.

What do you want me to check my facts about? What Moderate muslims think of Gays? Okay here:

http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/mission.html

"We oppose gender apartheid that is practiced in parts of our community, and believe it is contrary to the equity among men and women enshrined in Islam. We believe that Muslim men and women should work together, shoulder-to-shoulder, in their effort to rejuvenate our community."

""Members of many of our communities are from racial and religious minority groups that themselves experience discrimination, and we understand that human rights as guaranteed in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms must extend to everyone, including gay men and lesbians," Tarek Fatah of the Muslim Canadian Congress said."

Ofcourse, this is not the opinion of all Muslim. I don't generalize. But it is my opinion on the subject matter and that of other Muslims who are like minded.

I won't not make a habit of having to justify Islam to you. You are too close minded.