Mc.Guinty won't act

[Leafless]

An article in the Ottawa Citizen Fri. March 10/2006, page F1 titled "Mc.Guinty won't interfere in college strike" leaves a lot to be desired.

Mc.Guinty said " I am saying to both sides 'don't count on our government to intervene in this matter.' They are big boys and girls. Their responsibility now is to act responsible and find a resolution. "It will be irresponsible for the parties involved to say 'we are just going to sit back, sit on our hands, allow students to remain outside their classes and wait for someone to resscue us from ourselves."

What a load of crapolla!

The premier is in a positon to do something but won't.

But worse still the students are being screwed out of a quality school year and sit on their asses when they should be protesting or demand a return of their tuition fees.

These teachers should be set straight, don't you think?

[geoffrey]

All unionised teachers should be fired for not fulfilling their requirements in the job. The ones that want to come back without a union, be my guest. I still haven't figured out why Ralph hasn't done that yet. This is at all levels of education, college and university included.

In any other job (without a union), you would definitely be fired if you just decided you don't want to go to work because you weren't making enough.

It's not 'about the students' either, don't let these teachers fool you. If it were, they wouldn't destroy the kids school year.

McGuinty, send these hooligans to work. The ones that don't, fire them.

[cybercoma]

An article in the Ottawa Citizen Fri. March 10/2006, page F1 titled "Mc.Guinty won't interfere in college strike" leaves a lot to be desired.

Mc.Guinty said " I am saying to both sides 'don't count on our government to intervene in this matter.' They are big boys and girls. Their responsibility now is to act responsible and find a resolution. "It will be irresponsible for the parties involved to say 'we are just going to sit back, sit on our hands, allow students to remain outside their classes and wait for someone to resscue us from ourselves."

What a load of crapolla!

The premier is in a positon to do something but won't.

But worse still the students are being screwed out of a quality school year and sit on their asses when they should be protesting or demand a return of their tuition fees.

These teachers should be set straight, don't you think?

Good for him. I like Dalton McGuinty...he makes good decisions.

[Leafless]

cybercoma

You wrote- " Good for him. I like Dalton Mc.Guinty.. he makes good decissions."

He has an obligation to tax payers of Ontario to demonstrate leadership something Liberals know nothing about.

[cybercoma]

cybercoma

You wrote- " Good for him. I like Dalton Mc.Guinty.. he makes good decissions."

He has an obligation to tax payers of Ontario to demonstrate leadership something Liberals know nothing about.

He is not obligated to settle labour disputes.

[geoffrey]

cybercoma

You wrote- " Good for him. I like Dalton Mc.Guinty.. he makes good decissions."

He has an obligation to tax payers of Ontario to demonstrate leadership something Liberals know nothing about.

He is not obligated to settle labour disputes.

He is obliged to provide a college system. As are the teachers, that is their JOB. Order them back to work.

[fryingpan]

I know people who have been affected by that strike...none of them are getting a refund on their tuition, not even a partial one. If the teachers don't go back to work by April, many people are going to have to come back for another semester to get their degree.

The teachers in my area were offered $95,000 a year and they turned it down! So now they stand there wearing signs that say "we care about quality education" while their students get screwed out of the service they paid for.

[geoffrey]

I know people who have been affected by that strike...none of them are getting a refund on their tuition, not even a partial one. If the teachers don't go back to work by April, many people are going to have to come back for another semester to get their degree.

The teachers in my area were offered $95,000 a year and they turned it down! So now they stand there wearing signs that say "we care about quality education" while their students get screwed out of the service they paid for.

The students should sue the teachers union for tution and lost wages.

[fryingpan]

I know people who have been affected by that strike...none of them are getting a refund on their tuition, not even a partial one. If the teachers don't go back to work by April, many people are going to have to come back for another semester to get their degree.

The teachers in my area were offered $95,000 a year and they turned it down! So now they stand there wearing signs that say "we care about quality education" while their students get screwed out of the service they paid for.

The students should sue the teachers union for tution and lost wages.

That could work. After the teachers get the 6 digit income they're asking for, they should have no trouble affording it.

[geoffrey]

The students should sue the teachers union for tution and lost wages.

That could work. After the teachers get the 6 digit income they're asking for, they should have no trouble affording it.

Well the students are being financially hurt by this strike. There is no reason why a class action against the union wouldn't be reasonable. I'd definitely go for it if I was in that situation.

Now, are these colleges that have professors or colleges that have instructors? A PhD holding prof might have a valid argument for a 6 figure salary. A college teacher without a graduate education doesn't though.

[fryingpan]

The students should sue the teachers union for tution and lost wages.

That could work. After the teachers get the 6 digit income they're asking for, they should have no trouble affording it.

Well the students are being financially hurt by this strike. There is no reason why a class action against the union wouldn't be reasonable. I'd definitely go for it if I was in that situation.

Now, are these colleges that have professors or colleges that have instructors? A PhD holding prof might have a valid argument for a 6 figure salary. A college teacher without a graduate education doesn't though.

Some of them are full-time professors, but a lot of them are sessional instructors.

[lost&outofcontrol]

I know people who have been affected by that strike...none of them are getting a refund on their tuition, not even a partial one. If the teachers don't go back to work by April, many people are going to have to come back for another semester to get their degree.

The teachers in my area were offered $95,000 a year and they turned it down! So now they stand there wearing signs that say "we care about quality education" while their students get screwed out of the service they paid for.

How many of them do you think actually make $95000 ? The fact of the matter is that the starting salary is just over $32000 and goes up to $82000. The average salary for a high school teacher will be higher by next year than a college teacher's salary. The unions demand result in an effective raise of only 2.43% per year in the actual dollar value of the increase. If you factor in inflation, Ontario colleges are spending 20% less on each student than they were 15 years ago. PDF link to more info.

Ontario’s colleges serve 52 per cent more students than 15 years ago, but receive 40 per cent less funding per student in constant dollars. On the surface, college operating grants per student dropped by 14 per cent, but they have actually decreased by 40 per cent when adjusted for inflation.

In order to compensate for reduced operating grants, colleges have had to increase tuition. Since 1988-89, regulated college tuition fees have almost tripled, from $650 per student to $1,820 per student in 2003-04.

[geoffrey]

How many of them do you think actually make $95000 ? The fact of the matter is that the starting salary is just over $32000 and goes up to $82000. The average salary for a high school teacher will be higher by next year than a college teacher's salary. The unions demand result in an effective raise of only 2.43% per year in the actual dollar value of the increase. If you factor in inflation, Ontario colleges are spending 20% less on each student than they were 15 years ago. PDF link to more info.

I think you've got some points L&OOC. A sessional instructor at my university makes about $5000 per course, so I think that works out to about $40k-$45k a year. Not sure what colleges pay out here.

A raise of 2.43% isn't unreasonable, raises should be no more than inflation and I think thats in line with expectations. Though you said effective raise, so I'm assuming that 2.43% is above inflation? Why do people deserve a higher standard of living in the same position? If you want more money, work for a promotion or climb a level in those blasted seniority systems.

Wages for public employees should be linked directly to Statscan inflation. That way we can avoid all these messes.

[lost&outofcontrol]

How many of them do you think actually make $95000 ? The fact of the matter is that the starting salary is just over $32000 and goes up to $82000. The average salary for a high school teacher will be higher by next year than a college teacher's salary. The unions demand result in an effective raise of only 2.43% per year in the actual dollar value of the increase. If you factor in inflation, Ontario colleges are spending 20% less on each student than they were 15 years ago. PDF link to more info.

I think you've got some points L&OOC. A sessional instructor at my university makes about $5000 per course, so I think that works out to about $40k-$45k a year. Not sure what colleges pay out here.

A raise of 2.43% isn't unreasonable, raises should be no more than inflation and I think thats in line with expectations. Though you said effective raise, so I'm assuming that 2.43% is above inflation? Why do people deserve a higher standard of living in the same position? If you want more money, work for a promotion or climb a level in those blasted seniority systems.

Wages for public employees should be linked directly to Statscan inflation. That way we can avoid all these messes.

Yes it's 2.43% above inflation but again like I said, a high school teacher will be making more than a college teacher without this raise. Not to take away from a high school teacher but a college teacher has to deal with much more technical stuff and needs a higher education. Think of the 2.43% increase as a catchup raise.

[fryingpan]

I know people who have been affected by that strike...none of them are getting a refund on their tuition, not even a partial one. If the teachers don't go back to work by April, many people are going to have to come back for another semester to get their degree.

The teachers in my area were offered $95,000 a year and they turned it down! So now they stand there wearing signs that say "we care about quality education" while their students get screwed out of the service they paid for.

How many of them do you think actually make $95000 ? The fact of the matter is that the starting salary is just over $32000 and goes up to $82000. The average salary for a high school teacher will be higher by next year than a college teacher's salary. The unions demand result in an effective raise of only 2.43% per year in the actual dollar value of the increase. If you factor in inflation, Ontario colleges are spending 20% less on each student than they were 15 years ago. PDF link to more info.

Ontario’s colleges serve 52 per cent more students than 15 years ago, but receive 40 per cent less funding per student in constant dollars. On the surface, college operating grants per student dropped by 14 per cent, but they have actually decreased by 40 per cent when adjusted for inflation.

In order to compensate for reduced operating grants, colleges have had to increase tuition. Since 1988-89, regulated college tuition fees have almost tripled, from $650 per student to $1,820 per student in 2003-04.

I don't think any of them make $95000, that was the deal offered during negotiations while the teachers were on strike. Not sure what they were making before, but it's a lot higher than what the high school teachers here make.

[lost&outofcontrol]

I don't think any of them make $95000, that was the deal offered during negotiations while the teachers were on strike. Not sure what they were making before, but it's a lot higher than what the high school teachers here make.

They were offered as part of the package $95000 to the top earning teachers. I believe it takes 24 years(I'll have to check again to be sure) of seniority before getting to the last pay level. It's not $95000 for everyone ! (unless I misread your post, in that case disregard my mumbling)

[geoffrey]

Yes it's 2.43% above inflation but again like I said, a high school teacher will be making more than a college teacher without this raise. Not to take away from a high school teacher but a college teacher has to deal with much more technical stuff and needs a higher education. Think of the 2.43% increase as a catchup raise.

As long as we are on the same page that people shouldn't be getting wages above inflation every year. Thats how you get into the death spiral of expensive public services...

Considering they are paid lower than high school teachers may seem like an issue at first. But actually, with educational requirements these days, the high school teacher could possibly be better educated. Many university instructors only have a master's degree (5 years), where as it's taking 4 to get your BA or BSc plus 2-3 for your B.Ed for teachers, no?

High school teachers are in front of a class for 6 hours a day. Instructors at my school teach maybe 4 classes a semester, so 2 hours per day. These are instructors so they don't have research obligations. The work load is completely different.

I'm at a university so I don't know if its the same hours at a college but I assume its similar.

Also, many instructors are graduate students going for their PhD's. Don't tell me they deserve to be paid more than a teacher, they are merely just paying their way along towards their professorships.

That all considerd, should college and university instructors get paid as much as high school teachers?

[cybercoma]

I know people who have been affected by that strike...none of them are getting a refund on their tuition, not even a partial one. If the teachers don't go back to work by April, many people are going to have to come back for another semester to get their degree.

The teachers in my area were offered $95,000 a year and they turned it down! So now they stand there wearing signs that say "we care about quality education" while their students get screwed out of the service they paid for.

The students should sue the teachers union for tution and lost wages.

Now there's an interesting idea. Calculate the number of students in college right now, how much they paid for this semester in tuitions, and how much they'll lose for a semester on the job out in the field (that's how long their education has been delayed).

They could potentially bankrupt the teachers union. Hilarious...I love it.

[geoffrey]

I know people who have been affected by that strike...none of them are getting a refund on their tuition, not even a partial one. If the teachers don't go back to work by April, many people are going to have to come back for another semester to get their degree.

The teachers in my area were offered $95,000 a year and they turned it down! So now they stand there wearing signs that say "we care about quality education" while their students get screwed out of the service they paid for.

The students should sue the teachers union for tution and lost wages.

Now there's an interesting idea. Calculate the number of students in college right now, how much they paid for this semester in tuitions, and how much they'll lose for a semester on the job out in the field (that's how long their education has been delayed).

They could potentially bankrupt the teachers union. Hilarious...I love it.

Back in high school, a few of us got together and talked to a group of lawyers that were willing to sue the teacher's union if they went on strike and we had to re-do our grade 12. We were more than prepared to go on the news with it if the strike was looking unavoidable, I'm sure it would have scared them back to work.

Responsibility for their actions is a scary scary thought for unionists.

[fryingpan]

Back in high school, a few of us got together and talked to a group of lawyers that were willing to sue the teacher's union if they went on strike and we had to re-do our grade 12. We were more than prepared to go on the news with it if the strike was looking unavoidable, I'm sure it would have scared them back to work.

Responsibility for their actions is a scary scary thought for unionists.

Yeah, no kidding. Plus college students would have even more of a case since they have to pay part of the tuition themselves. And as for the part that was subsidized by taxpayers, I think they should get a refund too. After all, they worked hard to pay those taxes, and even if they aren't using the service right now, those tax dollars are never going to be seen again.