The Liberals have lost it

[Argus]

The problem with an Arab company controlling our ports is fairly obvious. Virtually all terrorism originates with Muslims. And while people like to suggest this is only a few radicals it goes far deeper than that. Very powerful people in the Muslim - principally Arab world - are funding and aiding terrorism. The Saudis seem to be supplying a huge proportion of the world's suicide bombers, for example, and they are often well-educated and well off. It is not beyond the realm of the possible - even likely - that some of those in the hierarchy of this company feel sympathy for terrorist groups, and might be willing to aid them, if only by a wink, a nudge, and looking the other way, as they infiltrate this company and make use of it to aid them in getting terrorists and explosives into North America. That is the chief concern in both Canada and the US. And it is a legitimate concern.

Except that this is simply a business transaction with one company purchasing another. The staffing at the ports will go virtually untouched. I wouldn't expect to see boatloads of Arabs showing up to work in these ports simply because Dubai Ports World owns them now.

I wouldn't expect to either. But the fact remains this is not merely an Arab company, it is owned by an Arab government, and if the overall owner of a company hints that perhaps this or that person ought to be hired than this or that person IS hired.

Security will be no more compromised with this situation as the administration of the ports has nothing to do with customs inspections.

Swell. Thanks for that message for whatever lovely little planet you're living on. Now back to Earth.

While security might well be provided by Customs and the police, there is zero doubt in the mind of anyone who has an ability to think, that it is far and away easier to smuggle people and goods into a country if you're the guys in charge of the ports, as opposed to on the outside trying to figure out how things work.

Dubai Ports World would have next to nothing to do with security in the sense of someone trying to smuggle things into Canada.

No doubt, but they would be in charge of the ports, and would be best equipped to get around security. As an example, someone who had never been in my building would have to try and figure out how and where to break in and where to find things to steal. Those of us who work there day in and day out know all the routines, know where everything is, and know what security does or doesn't do, and would find it fairly easy to steal things or sneak in and out if we so desired.

Your assertion that the RCMP is strapped for cash, although valid in other circumstances, is nothing more than a red-herring for an underlying racist agenda that would see Arab corporations and companies banned from doing business in North America for no other reason than ethnicity.

Yeah, well, you can stick that tired old cliche up your rectal cavity where you keep what tiny bit of brain matter you were sadly underequipped with.

[Argus]

Besides, Bush didn't "lose it" because he never "had it". Scott McLellen admitted he didn't even know about the deal (even though it was negotiated unilaterally by the white house) until it was reported in the media.

The deal has been blessed by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, a multiagency panel that includes representatives from the departments of Treasury, Defense and Homeland Security.

And the fact that the Bush White House is funded and controlled by oil interests had nothing to do with any of that!

[Argus]

Actually it's not the same at all, they're leasing a terminal. God forbid Arabs do business in North America.

The idea that we should allow foreign governments to administer our ports and airports is simply idiotic.

As is the idea that administering them will not vastly increase their opportunity of smuggling goods or people past the shredded, underfunded remnants of our coastal and port security if someone within that foreign government so desires.

[Argus]

We could do what the US is doing. Covening congressional studies on the matter. And how many containers are checked thru the Vancouver port. 5% like the U.S. That leaves a 95% unchecked. The terrorists only have to be successful once. We have to be successful EVERYTIME. I mention the G&M article as it points out the two foiled terrorists attacks on the west coast. All it takes is for one of these employees to look the other way.

Port employees don't inspect containers, customs does.

But port employees have a far, far better knowledge of when and where and how smuggling containers past customs should best be done.

The people with the best knowledge of how to breech security in any organization are the people who work in that organization. They'll easily be able to see how security works and operates, see their schedules, and know when and where weak points are.

[Leafless]

cybercoma

You wrote- " Actually they don't. they have just bought the company which does so, however, thus the fuss an Arab company controlling U.S. ports. congress may or may not decide to disallow the sale

There are allegations on several web sites that indicate the sale although presumed not finalized does have legal teeth suggesting Dubai does in fact have control concerning six U.S. ports. I don't think anyone knows what the real truth is at this point.

You also wrote- " Which is why we should have secure ports and a capable coast guard. Duh."

Are you as naive as to believe the coast guard can actually protect all the coastline around the U.S. Duh- I don't think so. Just think of the successful drug scene never mind the terrorist.

You also wrote - " What large scale? I didn't say large scale, I said slipping in terrorist in two's and three's not a whole boat load."

Again are you naive as to think the U.S. currently is terrorist free? Do you not think that there could be 10- 20 100 -200- 500 etc. terrorist roaming the U.S. at any given time.

Remember 9-11. No explosives or anything but small arms. To pull this type of event off successfully is the equivalent of winning a lottery.

[Montgomery Burns]

You can shove your "racist" claim you know where. Whatsa matter? Americans do it--bad. Canadians do it--good.

Here's a clue. He was giving the same response given by the US Rightwingers who support the deal. See...you made a compartitive joke, and so did he!

Fricking smug morally superior hypocritical Canadians...

Oh no...we're all so grateful that an American honors us as you do by your presence here! America is so much better than Canada, really! Allow me to apologize to you for all of Canada for being smug and morally superior! Clearly you are morally superior! You have led the way in moral superiority with uneccessary war and widespread torture in foreign gulags.

You ARE American, correct? You're not one of those self-loathing Canadians who wants to live in America but is too lazy to move so you tear down Canada, are you?

1) Actually the American right seems to be split on this deal. But that is the right. We do not march in lock step to our ideology.

2) Torture in foreign gulags? Panties on the head! Rap music played too loud! Temperature too hot! Temperature too cold! Lemon rice is not cooked correctly! Duck a la Orange is too cold!

Those poor Islamonazis who are NOT PROTECTED by the Geneva Convention. Typical of the Canadian left. They always take the side of thugs, murderers,and dictators.

Typical Candian leftie comparing the US to the Canadian left's beloved USSR, Castro, Saddam, Chavez, etc.

Going to war with Saddam who ignored the ceasefire he signed, ignored or broke the 16 UN Chapter VII (binding) resolutions, tried to assassinate an American President, and constantly fired on US and UK aircraft patrolling the no-fly zones that Saddam agreed upon....is being "superior".

Let me guess. You're morally superior to the US because Jean Chretien's son-in-law's father was the biggest shareholder in Fwance's TotalFinaElf's oil company--a company that was in bed with Saddam.

Or is it the fact (as proved by the FOI Act) that Saddam invested $1 million in Paul Martin's shipping company?

Did the CBC "forget" to report this?

But do continue with your "Canadians are morally superior to the US" canard. I hope you enjoy the blood money that our govt took from Saddam.

I love it when the left outs themselves.

[Drea]

I'm just askin'...

Why are people blaming the Liberals? The Federal Liberals?

They are not in power anymore. As of Feb 6th the Conservatives took over. Was the ball already rolling? Was Harper unable to stop it? I'm confused.

Unless of course people are blaming the BC Liberal party (who are conservatives btw, don't let the name fool you, Gordon Campbell is a conservative through and through).

[cybercoma]

You can shove your "racist" claim you know where. Whatsa matter? Americans do it--bad. Canadians do it--good.

Fricking smug morally superior hypocritical Canadians...

Canadian Coast Guard inspects shipments at port controlled by UAE--good.

US Coast Guard inspects shipements of port controlled by UAE--bad.

And it is similar. Don't you know what a lease is?

The American deal isn't bad, when did I say that?

I checked Newbie's thread and you did not say that.

But why did you call me a racist?

I guess I should have been clearer. I was merely mocking the Canadian liberals who were bashing Bush for doing the same thing that Canada's Liberal Party did.

Sorry about that, it just really burns me when these people use shakey evidence at best, to support the idea that we shouldn't let a multinational corporation buy things in our country because they're arab.

[cybercoma]

argus, your claims of the UAE government wanting terrorists imported into Canada and the US are unfounded. The best evidence you can dig up is that 3 of the 19 9/11 hijackers had UAE passports. Until you're willing to show without a shadow of a doubt that they're trying to facilitate terrorism, you're wrong. In fact, they've been supporters of the United States' "War on Terror" since the onset.

What, when, how or why customs or the coast guard searches containers has nothing to do with port operations. The manifests for what is being shipped is sent to customs and anytime they feel something may be "suspicious" they go through the containers. The coast guard at any time while the boat is near the port can board the vessel and inspect its contents. Between the RCMP, CSIS, the Canadian Military, the coast guard and customs...we're pretty damn well prepared.

The only objection anyone has to this sale is the fact that the nation is Arabic. Of all nations in the middle east, UAE probably has the most westernized culture (eg: free trade, women owned businesses, etc...). Hell, there's tons of Canadians living there teaching english now and Dubai is one of the most attractive tourist destinations in the world. This is hardly comparable to having Iran operate our ports, who have made no qualms about their "well wishes" for Canada and the US.

[Spike22]

You can shove your "racist" claim you know where. Whatsa matter? Americans do it--bad. Canadians do it--good.

Here's a clue. He was giving the same response given by the US Rightwingers who support the deal. See...you made a compartitive joke, and so did he!

Fricking smug morally superior hypocritical Canadians...

Oh no...we're all so grateful that an American honors us as you do by your presence here! America is so much better than Canada, really! Allow me to apologize to you for all of Canada for being smug and morally superior! Clearly you are morally superior! You have led the way in moral superiority with uneccessary war and widespread torture in foreign gulags.

You ARE American, correct? You're not one of those self-loathing Canadians who wants to live in America but is too lazy to move so you tear down Canada, are you?

1) Actually the American right seems to be split on this deal. But that is the right. We do not march in lock step to our ideology.

2) Torture in foreign gulags? Panties on the head! Rap music played too loud! Temperature too hot! Temperature too cold! Lemon rice is not cooked correctly! Duck a la Orange is too cold!

Those poor Islamonazis who are NOT PROTECTED by the Geneva Convention. Typical of the Canadian left. They always take the side of thugs, murderers,and dictators.

Typical Candian leftie comparing the US to the Canadian left's beloved USSR, Castro, Saddam, Chavez, etc.

Going to war with Saddam who ignored the ceasefire he signed, ignored or broke the 16 UN Chapter VII (binding) resolutions, tried to assassinate an American President, and constantly fired on US and UK aircraft patrolling the no-fly zones that Saddam agreed upon....is being "superior".

Let me guess. You're morally superior to the US because Jean Chretien's son-in-law's father was the biggest shareholder in Fwance's TotalFinaElf's oil company--a company that was in bed with Saddam.

Or is it the fact (as proved by the FOI Act) that Saddam invested $1 million in Paul Martin's shipping company?

Did the CBC "forget" to report this?

But do continue with your "Canadians are morally superior to the US" canard. I hope you enjoy the blood money that our govt took from Saddam.

I love it when the left outs themselves.

And you continually play with yourself. Just like your country is doing. Like the spoiled brat rich kid, if you don't like something the big bad united states will cry and take away all our toys. BooHoo

[Spike22]

Why not sell off everything and have everything privately owned. How about having ports sponsored by something or someone. Like GM Dokz or The 'United' Port?

[gerryhatrick]

Those poor Islamonazis who are NOT PROTECTED by the Geneva Convention. Typical of the Canadian left. They always take the side of thugs, murderers,and dictators.

I'd love to debate things with you monty, but you always run off on false tangents. It's a well accepted truth that the majority of people held in Abu Garab and other American gulags are innocent. This is the opinion of more than one American intelligence officer.

So, your defense of American torture by claiming that the victims of it are "Islamonazis" is empty.

Your President (who you do march lock-step in with....the ports deal is one of the RARE times the US rightwingers take a bite out of each other) has completely f#$%ked up your future.

The Iraq war and the torture of prisoners has only succeeded in creating more terrorists and enemies for your Country.

But do continue with your "Canadians are morally superior to the US" canard.

That was YOUR canard, not mine!

[geoffrey]

Those poor Islamonazis who are NOT PROTECTED by the Geneva Convention. Typical of the Canadian left. They always take the side of thugs, murderers,and dictators.

I'd love to debate things with you monty, but you always run off on false tangents. It's a well accepted truth that the majority of people held in Abu Garab and other American gulags are innocent. This is the opinion of more than one American intelligence officer.

So, your defense of American torture by claiming that the victims of it are "Islamonazis" is empty.

Your President (who you do march lock-step in with....the ports deal is one of the RARE times the US rightwingers take a bite out of each other) has completely f#$%ked up your future.

The Iraq war and the torture of prisoners has only succeeded in creating more terrorists and enemies for your Country.

But do continue with your "Canadians are morally superior to the US" canard.

That was YOUR canard, not mine!

American gulags. You must really be an ignorant fool. Comments like that make you sound like a bigger idiot and exaggeration artist than our pal al-Gore.

Stop blaming the US for making terrorists. It's this sick idealism coming from that place of the world that believes that everyone needs to be Islamic or face the jihad. These people aren't innocent, they are freaks with one thing in mind, kill western 'infidels.'

Sucking up to them, and patting them on the back when they kill medics and attack convoys in civilian clothing won't help. In fact, it makes you as bad as them.

These terrorists, these inhumane pieces of shit, don't deserve rights. They have forfietted that opportunity for fairness when they use human shields and dress in civilian clothing. They have no rights under Geneva. If any of them so much as throws a rock at a solider, they should be arrested for a few years, as they are created an environment over there where soliders don't know who is an enemy.

Torture saves lives. Remember that. Next time al-Qaeda is planning attacks, and we don't have the right to torture those that know the details, hopefully your not in the area right?

I don't see why you believe in giving these Islamic terrorist freaks more rights than US soliders that go out there and risk their life trying to liberate people they don't even know.

Whether ol' Bushie is there for a liberation party I don't know. But I know thats in the minds of all those troops over there.

I have a friend serving in Afghanistan right now, and he's told me many stories where their convoys will come under fire in crowded city streets by people hold kids in front of them. Yet everyday he does his job, providing humanitarian and medical assistance to these people.

These soliders should have every right to protect themselves. Those that oppose freedom should not be able to enjoy the luxuries of it.

[Argus]

argus, your claims of the UAE government wanting terrorists imported into Canada and the US are unfounded.

They're also unstated. I did not say the UAE government wants terrorists in Canada. What I said was there are almost certainly those sympathetic to the terrorists in the UAE government and in the upper ranks of this company, and it woudl be considerably easier for them to slip people or goods into Canada, should they choose to do so, if they are running one of our biggest ports.

The best evidence you can dig up is that 3 of the 19 9/11 hijackers had UAE passports. Until you're willing to show without a shadow of a doubt that they're trying to facilitate terrorism, you're wrong.

So until and unless someone proves beyond a "shadow of a doubt" that the UAE wants to bring terrorists into Canada you're fine with them controlling a Canadian port? Pretty high standard of evidence you're demanding on their behalf. You're asking for higher evidence than the courts do, except in criminal trials.

In fact, they've been supporters of the United States' "War on Terror" since the onset.

As have the Saudis. So what? Tons of Saudis despise the Americans anyway, and they continue to volunteer for suicide terrorism actions against them. The UAE, like the Saudis, is led by a very few tribal chiefs, whose aims are not always shared by the rest of the country.

The only objection anyone has to this sale is the fact that the nation is Arabic.

Rather, that it's Muslim, the source of almost all terrorism commited against the West, where opinion polls consistently show vast numbers of people in all countries support Bin Laden and despise the Americans.

[cybercoma]

Thank you for supporting my claim that the reasons are purely racist.

[BubberMiley]

Those poor Islamonazis who are NOT PROTECTED by the Geneva Convention. Typical of the Canadian left. They always take the side of thugs, murderers,and dictators.

Do you think by signing on to the Geneva Convention, the U.S. was taking the side of thugs, murderers and dictators?

[Argus]

And thank you for illustrating how vacuous you are.