Quebec health care initiatives

[Leafless]

Guaranteed shorter wait times for hip-knee-cataract surgeries utilizing private clinics...sounds good or is it?

Although there is no mention of user fees private clinics do not do things out of the goodness of their hearts.

Sounds like two tier health care to me.

And speaking of private clinics ---where do the doctors come from --out of public funded system?

This almost seems guaranteed to create a shortage of doctors in the public system guaranteeing higher enumeration for what could be the same doctor that now is in private clinics.

Why are doctors allowed to leave the public system initially to work for possibly more money in private clinics all ?

Does this sound confusing to you?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...0221?hub=Canada

[geoffrey]

Can't argue with results.

Private clinics do things more efficiently (therefore cheaper) to increase profit. Less spent on bureaucracy and more on actually helping people!

[Leafless]

geoffrey

You wrote- " Private clinics do things more efficiently (therefore cheaper) to increase profit."

Says WHO???

Mixed delivery may bleed resources away from the public system into the private one. Doctors and nurses can't be in two places at the same time, so it is possible the more care they provide in the for-profit sector the less they can do in the public division.

Waiting times are longer for cataract surgery for public/private surgeons than those who work in the public system only.

For profit clinics exist to provide care but the individuals who own and operate these ventures also need to make money. These goals can collide. Profit motives are the same everywhere.

We should keep medicare public-

http://www.keepmedicarepublic.ca/medicare/why.shtml

[wellandboy]

Having sent my, at the time 80 year old mother, who was misdiagnosed four times for two broken vertabrae after a fall, to the the Mayo Clinic in Rochester Minnesota, I'm not confident enough in our public system. There has to be some blending to make up the catostrophic inefficiencies in our public system. Jack Layton went to the Shouldice Clinic for his hernia surgery, because it is highly regarded, efficient and paid for through OHIP. There are solid arguments to be made for publicly paid for private clinics in many areas, provided they meet standards and fall within the tariff structure of the public system. I find it irresponsible to close off discussion of these alternatives when they meet this criteria but most of all treat people in a timely fashion. This idealogical struggle we continue to go through solves little as minute by minute, day by day thousands of Canadians lives are placed at risk. This is a huge problem that has to be measured by results.

[cybercoma]

Guaranteed shorter wait times for hip-knee-cataract surgeries utilizing private clinics...sounds good or is it?

Although there is no mention of user fees private clinics do not do things out of the goodness of their hearts.

Sounds like two tier health care to me.

And speaking of private clinics ---where do the doctors come from --out of public funded system?

This almost seems guaranteed to create a shortage of doctors in the public system guaranteeing higher enumeration for what could be the same doctor that now is in private clinics.

Why are doctors allowed to leave the public system initially to work for possibly more money in private clinics all ?

Does this sound confusing to you?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...0221?hub=Canada

Perhaps doctors in the private system are not making what they're worth if they all leave for the public system, no? That's what happens when the government controls economy by artificially creating wages, etc...

[cybercoma]

geoffrey

You wrote- " Private clinics do things more efficiently (therefore cheaper) to increase profit."

Says WHO???

Mixed delivery may bleed resources away from the public system into the private one. Doctors and nurses can't be in two places at the same time, so it is possible the more care they provide in the for-profit sector the less they can do in the public division.

Waiting times are longer for cataract surgery for public/private surgeons than those who work in the public system only.

For profit clinics exist to provide care but the individuals who own and operate these ventures also need to make money. These goals can collide. Profit motives are the same everywhere.

We should keep medicare public-

http://www.keepmedicarepublic.ca/medicare/why.shtml

Would you use a private clinic that offered subpar services?

Probably not and neither would anyone else. So, to be profitable they have to offer superior services or they close. Something the private system has no need to do.

[wellandboy]

geoffrey

You wrote- " Private clinics do things more efficiently (therefore cheaper) to increase profit."

Says WHO???

Mixed delivery may bleed resources away from the public system into the private one. Doctors and nurses can't be in two places at the same time, so it is possible the more care they provide in the for-profit sector the less they can do in the public division.

Waiting times are longer for cataract surgery for public/private surgeons than those who work in the public system only.

For profit clinics exist to provide care but the individuals who own and operate these ventures also need to make money. These goals can collide. Profit motives are the same everywhere.

We should keep medicare public-

http://www.keepmedicarepublic.ca/medicare/why.shtml

Would you use a private clinic that offered subpar services?

Probably not and neither would anyone else. So, to be profitable they have to offer superior services or they close. Something the private system has no need to do.

In your last sentence, do you mean "public" instead of "private"?

[Leafless]

cybercoma

You wrote- " Would you use a private clinic that offers subpar services?"

Of course not.

But in Canada we really don't know for sure what kind of service we are getting anywhere as public hospitals do not compete concerning competent medical procedures and neither do clinics as they to are partially or fully publically funded and are all treated equally.

But guaranteed shorter wait times involving private clinics in or out of Canada basically only complicates our medicare system and again puts the emphasis on private rather than public practices with no mention or information to help steer Canadians towards competent superior services obtained from existing private clinics other than possibly shorter wait times.

[Wilber]

cybercoma

You wrote- " Would you use a private clinic that offers subpar services?"

Of course not.

But in Canada we really don't know for sure what kind of service we are getting anywhere as public hospitals do not compete concerning competent medical procedures and neither do clinics as they to are partially or fully publically funded and are all treated equally.

But guaranteed shorter wait times involving private clinics in or out of Canada basically only complicates our medicare system and again puts the emphasis on private rather than public practices with no mention or information to help steer Canadians towards competent superior services obtained from existing private clinics other than possibly shorter wait times.

I fail to see why shorter wait times complicate our system just because they are provided by private clinics. It's the first time I have ever heard anyone insinuate that shorter wait times could be a bad thing.

Every time I go to my GP I am going to a private practitioner operating out of a private clinic, Every time I go to a specialist, I am going to another private practitioner. Why should I care if surgeries and other procedures are done by private clinics as long as they are paid for out of the public purse? Why does everyone working in the system have to get a paycheck written by a government. If a government builds something, they don't set up their own construction company to build it. They often don't even operate or maintain it. Companies compete for contracts and they hire the best they can get for their money. If there is competition between clinics for the public system's money, the ones who provide the best service will get the business and do well, the ones that don't, won't. It's up to government to set standards and ensure they are maintained, regardless of who is providing the service.

I'm all for making our public facilities as efficient as possible but if they aren't up to it, or we can get a better bang for our buck using some private facilities, let's do it.

We already have two tier health care when it comes to access. People injured on the job, among others, already go to the head of the line.

[Leafless]

Wilber

You wrote- " It's the first time I have heard shorter wait times could be a bad thing."

Private clinics are still fully or partially publically funded concerning procedures covered under the Canada Health Act so are not really fully private.

The point is shorter wait times could be only perceived as shorter wait times but do not really exist as the burden is simply transferred to to another area of health care in public facilities.

Where do private clinics get their doctors and nurses? Do doctors fully opt out of the fully public system or do they perform procedures as a part time occupation in clinics such and perform surgeries or other procedures part time at a public hospital or facility?

Full time doctors both private and public means a much higher cost to the tax payer and does not guarantee full time employment to the doctor in private clinics as a lot of his workload depends on the backlog of patients in the public system concerning specialized procedures.

Private clinics charge an extra fee for procedures for those who want to pay for those services,but we are talking private clinics in this case pertaining to guaranteed shorter wait times if a backlog exist for certain procedures that the public won't have to pay any extra.

I think all this is more smoke and mirrors and could create shorter wait times for some lucky patients and lengthen waiting times for other procedures and doctors are the big winners.