Appointing friend to Cabinet - slap in the voter's face

[Mimas]

After campaigning to clean up government, put an end to cronyism, and for a democratically elected Senate, Harper appointed unelected friend and supporter Michal Fortier to the Senate and to Cabinet as a SENIOR CABINET MINISTER, who will be responsible for tens of billions of our tax dollars. Fortier has since said that he just didn't want to run in the election. Well, Mr. Harper, this is cronyism at its best.

Here is a petition for Mr. Harper’s unelected friend, Michal Fortier, to resign his senior cabinet post until he runs and wins in a by-election for a seat in the House.

http://www.petitiononline.com/RMF/

Please forward this link to as many Canadians as you can.

[shoop]

I like the comment from Osama Bin Laden on the petition.

I am outraged. This appointment of an unelected individual sets a dangerous precedent which has been done on only 85 other occasions in Canada's history.

He seems pretty well versed in Canadian politics given the time he has spent hiding in caves in Afghanistan. Who knew?

[tml12]

I like the comment from Osama Bin Laden on the petition.

I am outraged. This appointment of an unelected individual sets a dangerous precedent which has been done on only 85 other occasions in Canada's history.

He seems pretty well versed in Canadian politics given the time he has spent hiding in caves in Afghanistan. Who knew?

Didn't you here, the Liberals fast-tracked his citizenship application because he said he'd vote Liberal...

His passport didn't arrive on time, so he went to the polls and verbally told them he was a Canadian citizen and they let him vote anyway...

Now he is working for the CBC...

I should add it disgust me that this could even be a reality...remember when the Chretien Liberals said they'd give Saddam amnesty...

[Mimas]

I like the comment from Osama Bin Laden on the petition.

I am outraged. This appointment of an unelected individual sets a dangerous precedent which has been done on only 85 other occasions in Canada's history.

He seems pretty well versed in Canadian politics given the time he has spent hiding in caves in Afghanistan. Who knew?

It may have been done a million times before, but Harper ran on a new clean age for Canadian politics, he promissed change. His top priority was to clean up government, have a democratically elected Senate because Senators should not be political friends appointed by the PM. Then the first thing he did as PM was appoint an unelected Senator and an unelected SENIOR CABINET MINISTER! That's not the kind of change Canadians voter for!

[shoop]

Yeah, yeah Mimas we get your point. Harper is a bad guy. Your three posts to date have all pointed that out.

He has only been in office for four days. The accountability act stated very clearly how PM Harper will clean up government.

Give him a little time before passing judgment. Who am I kidding? You have already made up your mind about Harper and *nothing* he can do will change that.

It may have been done a million times before, but Harper ran on a new clean age for Canadian politics, he promissed change. His top priority was to clean up government, have a democratically elected Senate because Senators should not be political friends appointed by the PM. Then the first thing he did as PM was appoint an unelected Senator and an unelected SENIOR CABINET MINISTER! That's not the kind of change Canadians voter for!

[Hicksey]

Has anyone bothered to listen about this appointment?

It is temporary pending legislation requiring the senate to be elected at which point he'll be required to run or relinquish the seat. If he loses he will have to be repalced in the cabinet. The only way he gets this seat permanently is if the opposition play the obstructionist and refuse to allow Harper to make the senate an elected body.

I don't like how it happened either, but of all the surprises in the cabinet this is the one I am least concerned with.

[shoop]

Well said. The only real troubling appointment is Emerson.

If he helps broker a deal on softwood lumber then the storm will die down.

Has anyone bothered to listen about this appointment?

It is temporary pending legislation requiring the senate to be elected at which point he'll be required to run or relinquish the seat. If he loses he will have to be repalced in the cabinet. The only way he gets this seat permanently is if the opposition play the obstructionist and refuse to allow Harper to make the senate an elected body.

I don't like how it happened either, but of all the surprises in the cabinet this is the one I am least concerned with.

[Hicksey]

I think Harper's banking on it. Maybe they see something on the horizon that we don't. I think that Harper thinks that this is the key that opens the greater Vancouver area electorate to the conservatives.

Well said. The only real troubling appointment is Emerson.

If he helps broker a deal on softwood lumber then the storm will die down.

Has anyone bothered to listen about this appointment?

It is temporary pending legislation requiring the senate to be elected at which point he'll be required to run or relinquish the seat. If he loses he will have to be repalced in the cabinet. The only way he gets this seat permanently is if the opposition play the obstructionist and refuse to allow Harper to make the senate an elected body.

I don't like how it happened either, but of all the surprises in the cabinet this is the one I am least concerned with.

[Argus]

After campaigning to clean up government, put an end to cronyism, and for a democratically elected Senate, Harper appointed unelected friend and supporter Michal Fortier to the Senate and to Cabinet as a SENIOR CABINET MINISTER, who will be responsible for tens of billions of our tax dollars. Fortier has since said that he just didn't want to run in the election. Well, Mr. Harper, this is cronyism at its best.

Not really. He only appointed him to the senate up until the next election, when he will run for a house seat. So big deal. It's not like cabinet ministers have a record of actually telling anyone anything in the House. They make mouth noises and say nothing. And it's not like Fortier needed the job. He will take a huge pay cut for this. As opposed to a situation such as when Chretien appointed his loyal friend and ex speaker Gilbert Parent as "Ambassador to the Environment" at a quarter million a year - to do nothing but go to the occasional dinner party at 5 star hotels in Paris or Rome.

[Hicksey]

Lets look at this from a different point of view.

Is it telling that he didn't think there was anybody better in his own party that he thought he could tap the shoulder of?

[wellandboy]

It may have been done a million times before, but Harper ran on a new clean age for Canadian politics, he promissed change. His top priority was to clean up government, have a democratically elected Senate because Senators should not be political friends appointed by the PM. Then the first thing he did as PM was appoint an unelected Senator and an unelected SENIOR CABINET MINISTER! That's not the kind of change Canadians voter for!

Mimas, I'm curious. Are you outraged because you voted for the Conservative Party of Canada, therefore feeling personally betrayed or are you a supporter of another party and using this as an excuse to bash Harper? There is an important distinction. Could you elaborate please?

[shoop]

He killed two birds with one stone. Got somebody with good experience in the lumber industry *and* a representative at the cabinet table for Vancouver. Clearly nobody met both of those criteria ... not really all that telling.

Lets look at this from a different point of view.

Is it telling that he didn't think there was anybody better in his own party that he thought he could tap the shoulder of?

[Mimas]

After campaigning to clean up government, put an end to cronyism, and for a democratically elected Senate, Harper appointed unelected friend and supporter Michal Fortier to the Senate and to Cabinet as a SENIOR CABINET MINISTER, who will be responsible for tens of billions of our tax dollars. Fortier has since said that he just didn't want to run in the election. Well, Mr. Harper, this is cronyism at its best.

Not really. He only appointed him to the senate up until the next election, when he will run for a house seat. So big deal. It's not like cabinet ministers have a record of actually telling anyone anything in the House. They make mouth noises and say nothing. And it's not like Fortier needed the job. He will take a huge pay cut for this. As opposed to a situation such as when Chretien appointed his loyal friend and ex speaker Gilbert Parent as "Ambassador to the Environment" at a quarter million a year - to do nothing but go to the occasional dinner party at 5 star hotels in Paris or Rome.

Well, tonnes of people would take a huge pay cut. Harper had 100 Conservative MPs to choose from, people who Canadians voted for. Yet he goes off and appoints a friend to be a cabinet minister! If it is undemocratic to appoint senators (who really don't matter much), how is it democratic to appoint a SENIOR CABINET MINISTER who will be one of the most powerful people in this country and will be spending billions of our tax dollars? On top of that, Fortier said he just couldn't be bothered to run in the election. That's not only a slap in the face of all voters, but a slap in the face of all conservative backbenchers (who won their seats fair and square, while Fortier didn't even move a finger).

[sage]

The thing that gets lost in this debate then is how exactly does Mr. Harper appoint a senator at this very moment? He can't appoint them, because then he's a hypocrite. So then the obvious choice is to have elected senators. Oh yes that's right, there is no legislative framework to do this in.

Apparently Mimas your answer to this then is that he must simply not appoint any senators.

[Mimas]

The thing that gets lost in this debate then is how exactly does Mr. Harper appoint a senator at this very moment? He can't appoint them, because then he's a hypocrite. So then the obvious choice is to have elected senators. Oh yes that's right, there is no legislative framework to do this in.

Apparently Mimas your answer to this then is that he must simply not appoint any senators.

No, that's not my point. Senators don't matter all that much anyway. My point is that he must NOT appoint cabinet ministers! Senior cabinet ministers are the dozen or so most powerful politicians in the country and they have control of hundreds of billions of our tax dollars. Cabinet ministers MUST be elected! There are 100 Conservative ELECTED MPs, he MUST choose from. Why isn't Diane Ablonczy in cabinet for example? She's been on the front benches of the Conservative caucus forever. He threw her in the backbenches to put a friend in cabinet? The optics of this are just terrible! He's enraged voters and his own caucus! This goes against everything he campaigned on.

[sage]

Its not a question of capability. Solberg would have been finance minister if that was all that was required. Its about the very thing you reference, optics. Harper wants a representative from Montreal in Cabinet and that's all there is to it.

He feels that putting this fellow in cabinet will ensure that he is elected next election.

Its not about putting a friend in cabinet, its about placing the party in a position to win some urban seats in the next election. Don't get me wrong, I wish there was another way to do this but my prediction is that Emerson will make headway on softwood lumber, ensuring his ascention to the heavens of the BC electorate. If Fortier runs and honours his promise to step down from the senate, this will be a non-issue as well.

[tml12]

It may have been done a million times before, but Harper ran on a new clean age for Canadian politics, he promissed change. His top priority was to clean up government, have a democratically elected Senate because Senators should not be political friends appointed by the PM. Then the first thing he did as PM was appoint an unelected Senator and an unelected SENIOR CABINET MINISTER! That's not the kind of change Canadians voter for!

Mimas, I'm curious. Are you outraged because you voted for the Conservative Party of Canada, therefore feeling personally betrayed or are you a supporter of another party and using this as an excuse to bash Harper? There is an important distinction. Could you elaborate please?

Good point...

Well?

[newbie]

He has only been in office for four days.

And only screwed up twice!

[shoop]

It is finally dawning on me. The Liberals are so outraged about being denied their god given right to govern they are hammering this story to milk it as much as they can before it gets knocked off the front pages by the Olympics.

newbie's moronic, childish five word post goes to show they have nothing more to say about it. Nothing to add to the debate, nothing more to say. sad, sad, sad. Maybe a new leader will change the mindset of the Liberals.

The Olympic opening ceremonies are tomorrow. One more day on the front pages then the story dies. Enjoy it while you can.

And only screwed up twice!

[Argus]

After campaigning to clean up government, put an end to cronyism, and for a democratically elected Senate, Harper appointed unelected friend and supporter Michal Fortier to the Senate and to Cabinet as a SENIOR CABINET MINISTER, who will be responsible for tens of billions of our tax dollars. Fortier has since said that he just didn't want to run in the election. Well, Mr. Harper, this is cronyism at its best.

Not really. He only appointed him to the senate up until the next election, when he will run for a house seat. So big deal. It's not like cabinet ministers have a record of actually telling anyone anything in the House. They make mouth noises and say nothing. And it's not like Fortier needed the job. He will take a huge pay cut for this. As opposed to a situation such as when Chretien appointed his loyal friend and ex speaker Gilbert Parent as "Ambassador to the Environment" at a quarter million a year - to do nothing but go to the occasional dinner party at 5 star hotels in Paris or Rome.

Well, tonnes of people would take a huge pay cut.

Not actually true. Most MPs are making more as an MP than they ever made in their lives, or were ever likely to make.

Harper had 100 Conservative MPs to choose from, people who Canadians voted for. Yet he goes off and appoints a friend to be a cabinet minister!

There were a lot of more deserving people left at the curb because Harper wanted a cabinet with representation from all across the country. More Alberta MPs should have been in the cabinet, for example, but weren't.

If it is undemocratic to appoint senators (who really don't matter much), how is it democratic to appoint a SENIOR CABINET MINISTER who will be one of the most powerful people in this country and will be spending billions of our tax dollars?

Well, one major difference is that the people effectively have no recourse against a Senator. However, they do have recourse against Harper if one of his cabinet ministers screws up. And Harper does have recourse as well. He can fire the man. That, after all, is the only real discipline Ministers face.

[shoop]

The Fortier appointment is playing quite well in Quebec.

Chantal Hebert said it best

If there is one area of the country where Harper's controversial cabinet moves have not put much of a damper on his honeymoon, it is Quebec where the advantage of securing a Montreal presence at the cabinet table has widely outweighed the unseemliness of appointing a non-elected minister to do so.

Harper sees the path to a majority in 2008 runs straight through Montreal and he is going for it.

[Mimas]

Its not a question of capability. Solberg would have been finance minister if that was all that was required. Its about the very thing you reference, optics. Harper wants a representative from Montreal in Cabinet and that's all there is to it.

He feels that putting this fellow in cabinet will ensure that he is elected next election.

Its not about putting a friend in cabinet, its about placing the party in a position to win some urban seats in the next election. Don't get me wrong, I wish there was another way to do this but my prediction is that Emerson will make headway on softwood lumber, ensuring his ascention to the heavens of the BC electorate. If Fortier runs and honours his promise to step down from the senate, this will be a non-issue as well.

I am outraged because Harper just proved that no matter who we vote for we get the same old, same old....cronyism and our friends are more important than Canadians. He never stopped blaming the Liberals for voter apathy because of cronyism, and then he gets elected and does the same the first day. Braking a major promise on the first day - there is no excuse for that.

[Mimas]

The Fortier appointment is playing quite well in Quebec.

Chantal Hebert said it best

If there is one area of the country where Harper's controversial cabinet moves have not put much of a damper on his honeymoon, it is Quebec where the advantage of securing a Montreal presence at the cabinet table has widely outweighed the unseemliness of appointing a non-elected minister to do so.

Harper sees the path to a majority in 2008 runs straight through Montreal and he is going for it.

Chantal is a separatist. I would trust her word as much as I trust Duseppe...that is, I don't.

[shoop]

Good way to avoid the issue. So why would a separatist write positively about a decsision that Harper has gotten tons of bad press over?

Chantal is a separatist. I would trust her word as much as I trust Duseppe...that is, I don't.

[FTA Lawyer]

The thing that gets lost in this debate then is how exactly does Mr. Harper appoint a senator at this very moment? He can't appoint them, because then he's a hypocrite. So then the obvious choice is to have elected senators. Oh yes that's right, there is no legislative framework to do this in.

Apparently Mimas your answer to this then is that he must simply not appoint any senators.

No, that's not my point. Senators don't matter all that much anyway. My point is that he must NOT appoint cabinet ministers! Senior cabinet ministers are the dozen or so most powerful politicians in the country and they have control of hundreds of billions of our tax dollars. Cabinet ministers MUST be elected! There are 100 Conservative ELECTED MPs, he MUST choose from. Why isn't Diane Ablonczy in cabinet for example? She's been on the front benches of the Conservative caucus forever. He threw her in the backbenches to put a friend in cabinet? The optics of this are just terrible! He's enraged voters and his own caucus! This goes against everything he campaigned on.

If Fortier performs admirably in controlling "hundreds of billions of our tax dollars" (which we will have to wait and see) is that not better than an elected Minister losing track of a billion (Jane Stewart HRDC) or than a bunch of elected Ministers telling Parliament 2 million for the gun registry and failing to tell the House when the number was actually at 2 billion etc. etc.

What is your view of the Prime Minister of Canada being "elected" (read appointed) by a few hundred members of his or her political party when there is a leadership change? (a la Paul Martin if you'll recall). In my view it's no different than what is happening here...temporary appointment, with ratification in front of the people of Canada to come.

Also, the fact that "senators don't matter all that much anyway" is exactly one of the reforms Harper hopes to make happen, and as Sage points out, until that reform happens, he has to use the current system.

FTA