Ft. McMurray hits 60 minutes

[JMH]

I was not only shocked that 60 minutes profiled this small peice of Canada, I have to say that I smiled a great deal throughout the program.

The statistical information that the American program had compiled, showed that Canada has proven reserves greater than that of Saudi Arabia (from their beginings......until their end).

With fossil fuels being a modern reality (while realistic alternative research continues), Canada..........

yes......Canada has quite a windfall on its hands.

My opinion: Canada has 30-40 years to exploit this resource before it becomes worthless.

Our nation could become very wealthy and regain an influential position in the world. We could then make a difference in the third world.......on our terms.........Canadian terms.

I'm curious as to any thoughts. Remember, if we dont get it now, someone else will..........guess who?

[Riverwind]

The statistical information that the American program had compiled, showed that Canada has proven reserves greater than that of Saudi Arabia (from their beginings......until their end).

I am sure the Pentagon is drawing up invasion plans as we speak...

[JMH]

The statistical information that the American program had compiled, showed that Canada has proven reserves greater than that of Saudi Arabia (from their beginings......until their end).

I am sure the Pentagon is drawing up invasion plans as we speak...

Yes but the U.N. will save us!

Did I just say that?

Honestly, I think we can hold them off and reape the beneffits for some time.

[Spike22]

Then why the hell is oil so expensive here? Bla bla bla I can hear everyone now, it is expensive to get the stuff and refine it. (sure it is when you see the wages they earn).

Seriously we need to produce more for our own use and become energy self sufficient instead of relying on the R.H.'s and sell the stuff to whoever will pay the most. China, India, Europe and the US will increasingly place more demands on supply and we will have them by the bal_ls. Come on Canada.

[stamps]

"yes......Canada has quite a windfall on its hands. " yes, the people of Alberta have quite the windfall..... and through the Federal Governments right to tax our(as in Albertans) resource, the country outside of Alberta will also benifit.... with the world becoming ever smaller and major corperations being global, if we in Alberta play our cards properly we should become the economic power house of North America and possibly the world.....

[willy]

Our oil is sold by the companies that mine it form the tar sands on the world market at the going rate. For the last year has been around $60 per barrel.

We benefit in our provinces and our country from these high prices. Just not at the pump. BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and New Foundland have all balanced the book on oil revenues.

Investors that fund the exploration and set up costs should also have a chance to receive a benefit and be taxed. To start an oil sands operation the cost is around $5 billion per start up.

If our government were to nationalize the oil industry can you imagine passing a budget that looks to invest billions in developing these resources. Tax dollars, going to oil mining. We are better off with this left in private hands and collecting the taxes.

To produce one barrel of oil out of the oil sands it costs $12. I poke a hole in the ground in the middle east it is much cheaper to produce one barrel (it was $1 per barrel) I don't know if the security concerns of the last few years has changed that number.

We have major oil sands expansion going on in Alberta right now, but it is a far cry from what the expansion could look like.

If we could only look to opening up the potential oil drilling off the west coast. David Anderson is gone and the Cons lost the dissenting MPs form the cost. I say bring on the exploration.

[tml12]

Then why the hell is oil so expensive here? Bla bla bla I can hear everyone now, it is expensive to get the stuff and refine it. (sure it is when you see the wages they earn).

Seriously we need to produce more for our own use and become energy self sufficient instead of relying on the R.H.'s and sell the stuff to whoever will pay the most. China, India, Europe and the US will increasingly place more demands on supply and we will have them by the bal_ls. Come on Canada.

We have a very high gas tax in this country.

You want it cheap? Drive south of the border...

[geoffrey]

Then why the hell is oil so expensive here? Bla bla bla I can hear everyone now, it is expensive to get the stuff and refine it. (sure it is when you see the wages they earn).

Seriously we need to produce more for our own use and become energy self sufficient instead of relying on the R.H.'s and sell the stuff to whoever will pay the most. China, India, Europe and the US will increasingly place more demands on supply and we will have them by the bal_ls. Come on Canada.

It's taxes here that make it expensive. Refineries pay pretty much the same for crude anywhere in the world. It's the same with any commodity.

We don't refine enough locally either, so we have to pay pipeline and transport costs on top of refinery costs, so that adds to the problem.

[hades_ibex]

We are forgetting that Exxon Mobil just posted the highest profits ever for a company: about $4 million per hour ($36 billion on the year) - up 43%. Chevron, Shell and others are having similar booms.

[August1991]

We are forgetting that Exxon Mobil just posted the highest profits ever for a company: about $4 million per hour ($36 billion on the year) - up 43%. Chevron, Shell and others are having similar booms.

That profit is based on what capital investment? If you think the profits are so great, then buy shares in Exxon.

----

On a completely separate note, I can foresee a coming day (perhaps in as little as five years) when there will be a carbon tax. If you dump garbage on my property, you have to compensate me for the damage. It is no different if someone dumps carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

For the moment, Alberta is in the enviable position of producing a product that seems costless to dispose of. Well, the days where it is free to dump anything anywhere are soon to end. Then, I don't know if Alberta's primary resource will look so attractive.

Governments haven't quite figured this one out yet. The best taxes are environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. You get to eat your cake and have it too.

[geoffrey]

Governments haven't quite figured this one out yet. The best taxes are environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. You get to eat your cake and have it too.

Hopefully you'd be happy unemployed, or your employed by the government. Businesses in Canada that are not somewhat reliant on manufacturing or resources are few and far between.

The cost in jobs would be unbelievable as a result of a carbon tax. Businesses would be running across that border so fast.

[YankAbroad]

The other thing is that Canada most certainly would have the US by the balls, as the US would have Canada by the balls.

Squeeze the US, and you squeeze Canada too, since we're the people who buy all the cars, movies, music, machinery, airplanes, etc. produced in Canada. Slow down our economy and we buy less stuff, meaning your economy slows down too.

The gains in oil profits would not make up for the losses in numerous other industries.

[geoffrey]

The other thing is that Canada most certainly would have the US by the balls, as the US would have Canada by the balls.

Squeeze the US, and you squeeze Canada too, since we're the people who buy all the cars, movies, music, machinery, airplanes, etc. produced in Canada. Slow down our economy and we buy less stuff, meaning your economy slows down too.

The gains in oil profits would not make up for the losses in numerous other industries.

Most Canadians are ignorant to the fact tht 80% of our economy is based on US consumer spending... but oh well.

[tml12]

The other thing is that Canada most certainly would have the US by the balls, as the US would have Canada by the balls.

Squeeze the US, and you squeeze Canada too, since we're the people who buy all the cars, movies, music, machinery, airplanes, etc. produced in Canada. Slow down our economy and we buy less stuff, meaning your economy slows down too.

The gains in oil profits would not make up for the losses in numerous other industries.

Most Canadians are ignorant to the fact tht 80% of our economy is based on US consumer spending... but oh well.

Geoffey,

Are you defending the U.S. and its relationship with Canada?

You must be anti-Canadian...

Ah, the truth hurts, eh???

[Hollus]

The other thing is that Canada most certainly would have the US by the balls, as the US would have Canada by the balls.

Squeeze the US, and you squeeze Canada too, since we're the people who buy all the cars, movies, music, machinery, airplanes, etc. produced in Canada. Slow down our economy and we buy less stuff, meaning your economy slows down too.

The gains in oil profits would not make up for the losses in numerous other industries.

Ya, so exaclty how long do we have to wait till the US takes initiative on the envirounment? I heard Bush say we're all addicted to oil but I did'nt hear a recovery program.

[YankAbroad]

I think a free-market approach to the environment is the best way to go. Sue polluters.

Of course, the biggest polluter in the United States and Canada alike is. . . (can you guess)?

[YankAbroad]

OK, I'll post it since it's 4 in the morning and I work at my home office in 4 hours' time.

The biggest polluters, by far, in both Canada and the USA, are. . . the governments of Canada and the USA.

That's why, when politicians talk about "cleaning up our air and water," I just want to laugh my butt off. They're doing more to foul it up than any other organisation in the country!

[August1991]

Governments haven't quite figured this one out yet. The best taxes are environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. You get to eat your cake and have it too.

Hopefully you'd be happy unemployed, or your employed by the government. Businesses in Canada that are not somewhat reliant on manufacturing or resources are few and far between.

The cost in jobs would be unbelievable as a result of a carbon tax. Businesses would be running across that border so fast.

Geoff, how many companies are running across the border now because of income taxes and GST and various other surcharges.

My point is that income taxes could be (will be) abolished and government will obtain its revenues from environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. We will eat our cake (pay for our government services) and have it too (protect the environment). This is an obvious no-brainer.

Canada's main resource is the environment. We would be wise to protect it and use it wisely. Look at what happened to Newfoundland's cod fishery when we don't.

[Hollus]

I think a free-market approach to the environment is the best way to go. Sue polluters.

Of course, the biggest polluter in the United States and Canada alike is. . . (can you guess)?

??? no I cant. Maybe the culmative effect of each individual? But personal resonsibility is a different subject.

Sueing polluters may very well work, but first we have to address the issue of increasing our environmental law

without losing all our jobs to less regulated countries.

And as it stands now a corporation will break environmental law if the profit outwieghs the cost of the punishment.

[geoffrey]

Governments haven't quite figured this one out yet. The best taxes are environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. You get to eat your cake and have it too.

Hopefully you'd be happy unemployed, or your employed by the government. Businesses in Canada that are not somewhat reliant on manufacturing or resources are few and far between.

The cost in jobs would be unbelievable as a result of a carbon tax. Businesses would be running across that border so fast.

Geoff, how many companies are running across the border now because of income taxes and GST and various other surcharges.

My point is that income taxes could be (will be) abolished and government will obtain its revenues from environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. We will eat our cake (pay for our government services) and have it too (protect the environment). This is an obvious no-brainer.

Canada's main resource is the environment. We would be wise to protect it and use it wisely. Look at what happened to Newfoundland's cod fishery when we don't.

Fisheries aren't the same as oil. We know there is only so much oil. Might as well get it out while its still worth something.

No income taxes and only carbon taxes? So big oil leaves, Alberta goes poor. The auto sector leaves, Ontario goes poor.

Now without Ontario and Alberta, who the hell is going to pay the bills in this country? Carbon taxes are only as good as the number of companies that decide to stay...

[Hollus]

Governments haven't quite figured this one out yet. The best taxes are environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. You get to eat your cake and have it too.

Hopefully you'd be happy unemployed, or your employed by the government. Businesses in Canada that are not somewhat reliant on manufacturing or resources are few and far between.

The cost in jobs would be unbelievable as a result of a carbon tax. Businesses would be running across that border so fast.

Geoff, how many companies are running across the border now because of income taxes and GST and various other surcharges.

My point is that income taxes could be (will be) abolished and government will obtain its revenues from environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. We will eat our cake (pay for our government services) and have it too (protect the environment). This is an obvious no-brainer.

Canada's main resource is the environment. We would be wise to protect it and use it wisely. Look at what happened to Newfoundland's cod fishery when we don't.

My point is that income taxes could be (will be) abolished and government will obtain its revenues from environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. We will eat our cake (pay for our government services) and have it too (protect the environment). This is an obvious no-brainer.

Have you got some resources to support this?

[August1991]

I think a free-market approach to the environment is the best way to go. Sue polluters.

That's not a free-market approach. That's a "lawyer approach".

A courtroom is rarely the place to determine the value of anything - except maybe the value of ego compared to legal fees. A courtroom is certainly not the place to determine the value of the environment.

[geoffrey]

My point is that income taxes could be (will be) abolished and government will obtain its revenues from environmental taxes such as a carbon tax. We will eat our cake (pay for our government services) and have it too (protect the environment). This is an obvious no-brainer.

Have you got some resources to support this?

The fact is he wouldn't. Regulations on important things like water pollution and toxic waste work better than a pollution tax (which is nearly impossible to inforce) which will just become an operating expense.

"Well if we pay 5% more in pollution tax and make 25% more in profit... lets do it!" says the Pollution Inc. CEO.

Greenhouse gas emission (carbon taxable) are not responsible for global warming. The composition of green house gases is only about 0.9% CO2. Remember that over 95% is water vapour, something we have absolutely no control over. So no, nice try, go back to Suzuki and give him a hug because he's probably crying.

Lets get working on real environmental issues like soil toxicity and water pollution, things that actually make a difference and stop worrying about how a few Euros will cry when we rip up Kyoto.

[Boondoggle]

The other thing is that Canada most certainly would have the US by the balls, as the US would have Canada by the balls.

Squeeze the US, and you squeeze Canada too, since we're the people who buy all the cars, movies, music, machinery, airplanes, etc. produced in Canada. Slow down our economy and we buy less stuff, meaning your economy slows down too.

The gains in oil profits would not make up for the losses in numerous other industries.

Most Canadians are ignorant to the fact tht 80% of our economy is based on US consumer spending... but oh well.

Actually, it's 80% of trade not the economy. A lot of other things go into the economy. Take construction for example. Most people that buy homes in Canada are Canadians, and those homes are built by Canadians using Canadian materials.

[geoffrey]

The other thing is that Canada most certainly would have the US by the balls, as the US would have Canada by the balls.

Squeeze the US, and you squeeze Canada too, since we're the people who buy all the cars, movies, music, machinery, airplanes, etc. produced in Canada. Slow down our economy and we buy less stuff, meaning your economy slows down too.

The gains in oil profits would not make up for the losses in numerous other industries.

Most Canadians are ignorant to the fact tht 80% of our economy is based on US consumer spending... but oh well.

Actually, it's 80% of trade not the economy. A lot of other things go into the economy. Take construction for example. Most people that buy homes in Canada are Canadians, and those homes are built by Canadians using Canadian materials.

Canadian's employed by companies that sell to Americans.