If the Population Growth problem continues to be ignored...

[Riverwind]

My understanding is that they survived just fine without us before. If cities grow outwards or upwards, then growth doesn't need to be in the 'middle of nowhere'. .

Natives lived a stone age existence with none of the modern amenities that we take for granted today. Furthermore, the number of people living that nomadic hunter gatherer life style was much less than the number of people in the Canadian hinterlands today. Population centers outside the major centers in Canada will never be able to support populations much larger than what they have today.

You don't need to make new cities, just make the current ones bigger

The current cities are already struggling with over crowding. Vancouver is one of the more densly populated places on the planet. Vancouver is already more densely populated than Bangkok, Shanghai and Banglore (India) and only slightly less crowded than Hong Kong. Calgary and Edmonton have limited supplies of fresh water which limits their growth even if the land is theoretically there. Water rationing in the summer time is already happening in Vancouver - imagine what it would be like with twice the population.

The idea that Canada has 'lots' of space for more people is a myth. If the northern lands we occupy were capable of supporting a huge population then there already would be a huge population. No matter how much technology our society has it cannot escape the reality that without easy access agricultural products and water you can't have cities.

[geoffrey]

Natives lived a stone age existence with none of the modern amenities that we take for granted today. Furthermore, the number of people living that nomadic hunter gatherer life style was much less than the number of people in the Canadian hinterlands today. Population centers outside the major centers in Canada will never be able to support populations much larger than what they have today.

What do you consider the major centres? Places like Calgary have tons of room for growth (if properly managed). Saskatoon has a promising tech sector that might eventually encourage some major growth there. There are alots of smaller urban locales that have promise for future growth.

I agreed with your statement by the way. I did say that growth outside centres won't happen!

The current cities are already struggling with over crowding. Vancouver is one of the more densly populated places on the planet. Vancouver is already more densely populated than Bangkok, Shanghai and Banglore (India) and only slightly less crowded than Hong Kong. Calgary and Edmonton have limited supplies of fresh water which limits their growth even if the land is theoretically there. Water rationing in the summer time is already happening in Vancouver - imagine what it would be like with twice the population.

Very valid points. Places like Vancouver (smushed up against mountains!) would not be places for future development. Calgary's freshwater dilemma is also a hiderence for growth far into the future (especially with the hippies saying if we don't stop using water the glaciers will melt faster!!).

About Vancouver... can't they use desalinisation? Seem's like they've got a whole lot of water there, I know its expensive, but its possible right?

The idea that Canada has 'lots' of space for more people is a myth. If the northern lands we occupy were capable of supporting a huge population then there already would be a huge population. No matter how much technology our society has it cannot escape the reality that without easy access agricultural products and water you can't have cities.

Agreed completely. My statement did reflect my belief that growth would have to come from urban and semi-urban centres already in place. That said, there are some minor cities that do have potential to grow if they had to... Lethbridge or Medicine Hat are two local examples to me.

[quinton]

Geoffrey says:

Agreed completely. My statement did reflect my belief that growth would have to come from urban and semi-urban centres already in place. That said, there are some minor cities that do have potential to grow if they had to... Lethbridge or Medicine Hat are two local examples to me.

Geoffery why does growth have to come from anywhere in Canada? When is enough enough?

Ever heard of the steady state economics model? It allows nations to focus on more noble goals than growth.

[Spike22]

Well I fly all over this country and I can tell you there ain't a lot going on outside of our towns and cities. Nothing but trees mainly until you head north. So the space concern in this country is a non issue - maybe in 2000 years or so but you and I and any relatives we'll know will be dust by then. As for absorbing people we can absorb them if they are skilled in the areas we need them for.

In my opinion, its this attitude that is going to bury us. The "One cannot see the forest for the trees", the failure

to recognize the ecological and economical worth of sustainably managing these resources. How we manage our growing population, urban expansion, and resource exploitation, will determine our living standards in the future.

I like this Keynote speech by Ray Anderson Chairman of the Board, Interface Inc. for its descriptiveness:

"I have asked myself over and over for nearly 11 years, and I ask you, how would a living planet—the rarest and most precious thing in the universe—lose its biosphere, i.e., its essential livability? We take it for granted and don’t want to believe losing it is even possible. But, think about it, and you know, if Earth, someday in the distant future, has lost its livability—its biosphere—it will have happened insidiously:

One silted or polluted stream at a time;

One polluted river at a time;

One collapsing fish stock at a time;

One dying coral reef at a time;

One acidified or entrophied lake at a time;

One over-fertilized farm at a time, leading to one algae bloom at a time.

One eroded ton of topsoil at a time;

One developed wetland at a time;

One mansion built on a fragile marsh hammock at a time;

One disrupted animal migration corridor at a time;

One butchered tree at a time;

One corrupt politician at a time;

One new open-pit coal mine in a pristine valley at a time;

One decimated old growth forest at a time;

One lost habitat at a time;

One disappearing acre of rain forest at a time;

One political pay-off at a time, resulting in one regulatory roll-back at a time;

One leaching landfill at a time;

One belching smokestack or exhaust pipe at a time;

One depleted or polluted aquifer at a time;

One desertified farm at a time;

One over-grazed field at a time;

One toxic release at a time;

One oil spill at a time;

One breath of fouled air at a time;

One-tenth of a degree of global warming at a time;

One exotic disease vector at a time;

One new disease at a time;

One invasive species at a time;

One perchlorate contaminated head of lettuce at a time. (Perchlorate is rocket fuel, and it is in the ground water of the San Joaquin Valley, of California thanks to Aerojet General.)

One chloro-fluorinated or methyl-brominated molecule of ozone at a time, creating a deadly hole in the ozone ultra-violet radiation shield;

One poorly designed carpet at a time;

One thoughtlessly designed building or building interior at a time;

One misplaced kilogram of plutonium at a time;

One more ton of spent nuclear fuel at a time, looking for a safe and secure home for 240,000 (!) years;

One advance of urban sprawl at a time;

One insensitive or uninformed architect or interior designer or facility manager or manufacturer at a time;

One songbird at a time;

One PCB-laced orca, one whale, one dolphin, one trumpeter swan, one mountain gorilla, one polar bear, one leatherneck turtle at a time;

One entire wild species at a time; and

One poverty-stricken, starving, diseased, or exploited human being at a time;

That is how it would have happened, and we know that it is happening already just that way—so many ways! You could make your own list, just as long without any duplication. It is a long, long slippery slope, and we are on it. That is the first trend. We are losing one strand of the web of life at a time, inexorably, and it will not stop until either we homo sapiens come to our senses, or we, too, are gone and can do no more damage. If we do come to our senses in time, that will happen one changed mind at a time.

"

BARF this makes me want to go hug a tree, sell the old ladies fur coat, hand in my seal pup beatin' stick, eat a ganola bar and streak around the neighborhood

[quinton]

Spike22 I did not find your humour interesting or amusing.

To me, you sound like an airhead who doesn't think about important problems because you cannot be bothered.

You probably watch TV sports and care about cars, spending money, and have lots of status anxiety.

Say something intelligent or keep your comments to yourself.