Paul Martin's Legacy

[Argus]

Good point. I don't want this to turn into an anti-Quebec thread (although it's fun), but could people smarter than I please post a list of the last, say, 7 or 8 PM's and where they were from?

Louis St Laurent, Liberal - Quebec - 9 years

John Diefenbaker, PC, Saslatchewan - 6 years

Lester Pearson Liberal - Ontario - 5 years

Pierre Trudeau Liberal - Quebec - 15 years

Joe Clark PC - Alberta - 8 months (beat Trudeau, then was beaten by him)

John Turner Liberal BC/Ontario - 4 months

Brian Mulroney, PC - Quebec - 9 years

Kim Campbell, PC - BC - 5 months

Chretien, Liberal - Quebec - 10 years

Martin, Liberal - Quebec/Ontario - 2 years

approx 57 years worth above, of which 45 years were Quebecers.

Canada has had Quebec PMs for 36 of the last 38 years

[Guest eureka]

Argus. he asked for someone smarter than him!

[August1991]

Argus,

John Turner was first elected to the House from a Quebec riding because he lived and worked in Montreal. His connection to BC is tenuous. His childhood was largely in Ottawa.

A more significant fact is that all our PMs since Pearson have been practicing Roman Catholics (except Campbell).

And Argus, your argument that non-Quebecers lost elections after successful Quebec PMs merely shows that Quebecers are successful politicians in Canada. I happen to think that Trudeau and Chretien could have both been re-elected if they had chosen not to resign. Even Mulroney might have pulled off a minority government in 1993, and he ceratinly would have avoided the Campbell debacle.

There are reasons for the success of Quebec politicians but a small parallel can be made with the US where the only Democrats to become President come from the south (that's been true since 1964).

----

Paul Martin's legacy? Well, the election is still a week away so a death notice, as Twain said, seems greatly exaggerated. Martin was a good finance minister in a do-nothing government and then briefly a bad PM. That's very close to Turner, who is largely forgotten now. Turner at least got to argue free trade with Mulroney whereas Martin won't get any more chances if the Liberals lose this time.

Jacques Parizeau dreamed most of his adult life of making Quebec a sovereign country. In one night, he came so close and yet lost. Paul Martin dreamed most of his adult life of being PM of Canada. He's now watching it slip away from him after he never really got the chance to be PM. Ainsi va la vie.

[Riverwind]

And Argus, your argument that non-Quebecers lost elections after successful Quebec PMs merely shows that Quebecers are successful politicians in Canada. I happen to think that Trudeau and Chretien could have both been re-elected if they had chosen not to resign. Even Mulroney might have pulled off a minority government in 1993, and he ceratinly would have avoided the Campbell debacle.

I don't agree. The only reason the Liberals lasted as long as they did was the fact that Chretien quit and Martin took over. Mulroney would have gone down in flames too. I suspect these guys were astute enough to know that they should while while they were ahead.

[cybercoma]

What will history say about Paul Martin?

That he was one of Canada's greatest Finance ministers,or a politician that was possessed with becoming Prime Minister?

How will he be remembered?

What are your thoughts on how history will remember Paul Martin Jr and his role as Prime Minister.

In the spirit of bastards and boneheads, he was a bastard as finance minister, managing to balance the budget and eventually have create a surplus year after year. As Prime Minister he was most certainly a bonehead who dropped the ball when he had to clean up the mess created by members of his party.

[Argus]

And Argus, your argument that non-Quebecers lost elections after successful Quebec PMs merely shows that Quebecers are successful politicians in Canada.

No, it shows the tribal mentality of Quebec, which, as I have said often, will simply not vote for a non-Quebecer if one is available. I don't care if the Tories run Jesus Christ himself, and the Liberals are running a french poodle from Jonquiere. They will vote for the poodle.

For the past fifty years this has meant whichever party has the Quebec leader wins, and because of their alternating french/english leaders that has usually been the Liberals. I would go further by saying Francophones outside Quebec will inevitably vote for the Francophone candidate and the party with the Francophone leader. Even in ridings where Francophones constitute a minority this influences the election. If you can be sure of getting 90% of the votes of 1/3 the population, then you only have to get about 20% of the remaining group to win. Eastern Ontario is full of such ridings, where they always return a Francophone MP even though only 1/3rd or less of the riding is French.

[sage]

Don't you think PMPM will be remembered as the man who came in with some of the highest of expectations, only to fall short in every regard? This alone sets him apart from Kim Campbell who was basically election fodder.

A fairly adept politician, but a disaster of a leader.