Excellent Calgary Sun Article

[tml12]

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Jac...10/1386795.html

I think it is well written on Canada-US relations...

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear tml12,

I think it is well written on Canada-US relations...

Hate to attack the writer and not the writing, so I'll try to do both. Paul Jackson makes me cringe at how rabidly right wing people can be in Canada. I have read his stuff in the Calgary Sun for years, back before his tenure as the editor. He believed in and supported South African apartheid, and thought they were a great country. He is an ardent zionist and extremely pro-USA, to the point of making me wonder what on earth is he doing in Canada.

From Jackson...

Hence the ban on our beef went on and on, and the softwood lumber dispute never gets settled -- with Mulroney, or Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, these issues would have been settled with the snap of a finger from Bush.

If it were only so easy, simply swear fealty to a new potentate, and all of your wishes will come true. What would playing the role of sycophant cost? A billion a year to keep troops in Iraq? Free water?

[tml12]

Dear tml12,

I think it is well written on Canada-US relations...

Hate to attack the writer and not the writing, so I'll try to do both. Paul Jackson makes me cringe at how rabidly right wing people can be in Canada. I have read his stuff in the Calgary Sun for years, back before his tenure as the editor. He believed in and supported South African apartheid, and thought they were a great country. He is an ardent zionist and extremely pro-USA, to the point of making me wonder what on earth is he doing in Canada.

From Jackson...

Hence the ban on our beef went on and on, and the softwood lumber dispute never gets settled -- with Mulroney, or Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, these issues would have been settled with the snap of a finger from Bush.

If it were only so easy, simply swear fealty to a new potentate, and all of your wishes will come true. What would playing the role of sycophant cost? A billion a year to keep troops in Iraq? Free water?

I don't read the Calgary so I hope you'll forgive me when I say that I cannot comment on anything else this man has written or who he even is. What I do believe is that the article was, maybe childishly so, positive on Harper and his potential relations with the U.S. It also criticized Martin quite rightly for his lack of diplomacy. The quote you included, fleabag, I agree was a bit optimistic.

[August1991]

If it were only so easy, simply swear fealty to a new potentate, and all of your wishes will come true. What would playing the role of sycophant cost? A billion a year to keep troops in Iraq? Free water?

I'll agree there, Thelonious, it were only so easy...

First, Americans have always wanted to be friends with everyone. (Call it the Dale Carnegie approach to life.) IME, Americans are genuinely perplexed to learn that not all people are like Americans, and some people just don't like some Americans.

Second, mad cow and softwood lumber would defy the White House to solve alone. The Congress is involved, as well as the bureaucracy, and certain state governments. The dispute mechanism adds another player. True, having the support of the White House would help, maybe. IOW, regions of the US lose out in the political game in Washington too, not just Canada. (The rise in the Canadian dollar will likely solve the lumber dispute.)

Third, why is it in English Canada, right-wing is defined as pro-American and Left wing is defined as anti-American?

Fourth, why is it bad if Americans refuse to buy our lumber but it's also bad if Americans want to buy our water?

[speaker]

Americans have always wanted to be friends with everyone? That's good to hear, next time they decide to invade some poor country that they are being friendly with we can send our troops to reassure everyone that it's merely the Government of the USA expressing their puzzled love.

The Americans have divisions within themselves. I agree with that. Each state has significant power in Washington DC. Electoral Politics. The corporate sector has significant power in Washintongton, DC. Finanancial Politics. It's easy to see why poor George, who seems to have trouble putting two and two together, has difficulty hearing anything from as far away as Canada. Between the CEOs of the American Forestry industry, and the Agribusiness sector, and the Senators who see the extra money coming into their

states coffers he must be almost deaf.

Something about the lumber dispute that is perhaps not noticed is that the lumber is still flowing out of Canada into the States, like it's on the old style river runs. The difference is that the money coming back for it is significantly less than it was before. So who is really suffering, A good portion of our forest companies are American owned, so they could care less. The people who work or rather worked in the industry here, loggers and mill workers, are the people who have paid for Bush's support from the above mentioned lobbyists. Residents of the provinces that have some export are also making their contributions through relaxed logging rules, reduced local jobs in the economy, damaged environments because of less government control of the forest giants.

It isn't so much that we don't want the Americans to stop buying our forest products, or that we don't want them to buy our water. It's that now we are subsidizing the destruction of our forests for American benefit, and water is not going to fall into the same trap.

[USA_Liberal]

its really disgusting to see the generalization of americans. I am American, I resent bush just as much as most canadians. they say that americans don't know their geography. on the same token, Canadians don't really seem to understand American political makeup. California reminds me of Canada, but I hope what happened there doesn't repeat in Canada. The state is moderate to left learning with the exception of a few counties. It took a backlash from voters towards a liberal governor, enabling arnold to become governor. On a normal political day, the conservatives don't have a fighting chance in Califonia. Most eligible popular voters in the US are not conservative, yet somehow there is this belief that US means conservative. Not all americans are texans, or cowboys.

from my standpoint, the conservatives are minorities in both the US and Canada, and as long as the left shows up on election day, the hillbillies don't stand a chance.

[FTA Lawyer]

its really disgusting to see the generalization of americans. I am American, I resent bush just as much as most canadians. they say that americans don't know their geography. on the same token, Canadians don't really seem to understand American political makeup. California reminds me of Canada, but I hope what happened there doesn't repeat in Canada. The state is moderate to left learning with the exception of a few counties. It took a backlash from voters towards a liberal governor, enabling arnold to become governor. On a normal political day, the conservatives don't have a fighting chance in Califonia. Most eligible popular voters in the US are not conservative, yet somehow there is this belief that US means conservative. Not all americans are texans, or cowboys.

from my standpoint, the conservatives are minorities in both the US and Canada, and as long as the left shows up on election day, the hillbillies don't stand a chance.

You criticize people for generalizing Americans...and scarcely a sentence later you refer to "conservatives" as "hillbillies".

What an incredibly compelling display of rational discourse.

FTA

[PocketRocket]

I read the article first, then came back to see teh comments already posted.

T-BAG had already cited the quote that I grabbed from the article.....

Hence the ban on our beef went on and on, and the softwood lumber dispute never gets settled -- with Mulroney, or Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, these issues would have been settled with the snap of a finger from Bush.

....but seemingly for slightly different reasons.

The suggestion that the softwood lumber issue would immediately be fixed under Mulroney, or more specifically Harper, appeared to me to be a direct partisan shot from the writer, which only served to damage what otherwise looked like an impartially-written piece.

Aside from that small gaff, good article.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

Second, mad cow and softwood lumber would defy the White House to solve alone. The Congress is involved, as well as the bureaucracy, and certain state governments. The dispute mechanism adds another player

Don't forget the voter. Much of the opposition to opening the border is found in the US rancher's 'lobby', as it were, and being seen as 'protecting the farmer's livelyhoods' goes over well at vote time.

Third, why is it in English Canada, right-wing is defined as pro-American and Left wing is defined as anti-American?

Everyone likes labels. I suppose the USA is seen as the 'greed capital' of the world, so if one is 'right wing', it is assumed that they wish everyone to be like the USA. Not all 'right wingers' are pro-USA, to be sure, just as not all 'left wingers' are communist. But, the 'labels' fit easily.

Fourth, why is it bad if Americans refuse to buy our lumber but it's also bad if Americans want to buy our water?

Actually, it is not the fact of 'refusal to buy' that rankles many, it is the refusal to trade fairly or live up to 'contractual obligations'. I would much prefer our lumber to stay where it is. We send our raw resources out and buy back junk at inflated prices. I'd rather see the junk made here.

As speaker opines,

It's that now we are subsidizing the destruction of our forests for American benefit, and water is not going to fall into the same trap.

Forests are reasonably renewable if managed properly. Our oil and NG, well, we can get richer by selling to greedy wastrels, but water? No way, too precious (or at least it will be, and sooner than many people think).

[Leafless]

August1991

I,ve always liked the U.S. and and anyone I know feels the same way.

In fact we think of the U.S. as an arm of Canada or big brother-little brother relationship.

In most part anti-Americanism comes from Quebec who sure likes to trade with the U.S. but on the other hand feel their not leaders and unique like Quebec thinks it is. And from new immigrants who dragged their politcal baggage into Canada along with their anti-U.S sentiments.

You wrote- " Why is it English Canada right wing is defined as pro-American and Left wing is defined as anti-American."

This basically stems from the fact right wing always or most of the time supported U.S. initiatives while Canada's left wing support's European ideologies and therefore is seen as anti- American, which they are as Europe in all practical respects has NO political or important trading influence on Canada.

You wrote- " Why is it bad, if Americans refuse to buy our lumber but also bad if Americans want to buy our water."

I thought they are buying our lumber and a fortune in related paper products.

But water in Canada is a resource politicians always treated as 'sacred' and said would never be for sale--that's why.