Canadians bashing Canadians

[rhumbline]

I'm new to this site, oddly enough I found it reseaching Icelandic hockey! Anyway, I'm somewhat surprised at the amount of self criticism that is on this site. As an american ships officer(merchant) I'm often in places where the tourists do not venture. The dockworkers in Alexandria, Naples, and LeHarve are somewhat less than gracious when expressing their views on current events.

There has been some acute criticism or the present administration in the U.S. This is not a bad thing, because for many of us in the U.S. this is no longer an option, without losing ones license,being put on watch, or no fly lists. Unlike ever before when politics might have been a bit less crucial or harmful, the times have changed, and the dictates of this present day crowd are threatening the entire planet. We see this, but cannot explain this to family and friends! There needs to be just and realistic questioning of some of our policy's, and if Canada can chip in, in a constructive manner , have at it...paul

[The Honest Politician]

Dude, are you saying you cannot speak out against your govt for fear of retribution, like losing your license?

[Shakeyhands]

Check this out....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/branded_b_13272.html

A co-author of the book Bush's Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential has been placed on the federal no fly list. Interesting...

[newbie]

That is way more than interesting. We should all be afraid of Bush and his gang of thugs.

[America1]

That is way more than interesting. We should all be afraid of Bush and his gang of thugs.

What you should be more afraid of is your country turning into a socialist nightmare like Europe.

[Black Dog]

That is way more than interesting. We should all be afraid of Bush and his gang of thugs.

What you should be more afraid of is your country turning into a socialist nightmare like Europe.

Ha. First, have you ever been to Europe, or are you just regurgitating Steyn? Second: why, if Europe is such a "nightmare", do European countries consistenly top the global rankings when it comes to quality of life, even according to the folks at the right-wing mag The Economist?

[Biblio Bibuli]

That is way more than interesting. We should all be afraid of Bush and his gang of thugs.

What you should be more afraid of is your country turning into a socialist nightmare like Europe.

Ha. First, have you ever been to Europe, or are you just regurgitating Steyn? Second: why, if Europe is such a "nightmare", do European countries consistenly top the global rankings when it comes to quality of life, even according to the folks at the right-wing mag The Economist?

I'm from Europe ... so HA (with a snide European accent) to you too.

And yes, I guess you're right. Those French adore getting their cars burned, the Brits love getting blown up on subways, the Spaniards are in total glee about their trains blowing up. And as for Holland ... can't beat politians & film makers being murdered in the streets.

Eurabia is one laugh after another.

[rhumbline]

That is way more than interesting. We should all be afraid of Bush and his gang of thugs.

What you should be more afraid of is your country turning into a socialist nightmare like Europe.

I'm thinking that you may not have traveled much internationally. You refer to Europe as a socialist nightmare. Do you have knowledge of the systems and tax rates in European countries? When all is considered, taxes might be somewhat higher in Europe ,but aside from medical and pension, the system is built on building a better mousetrap than the other guy.

Do you know that the minimum wage in Ireland,Denmark,Netherlands Etc is in excess of $10 per hr with medical civerage? There are no 70 yr old women working in the Waffle House at 0200 to make their rent!

The so called freedom our kid s enjoy is a minimum wage of $5.15 per hr. which is in essence creating a smorgasborg, or buffet for international business to feast on. The U.S. has the cheapest wages in the western industrialized world, and our leaders intend to keep it that way. So before you start to berate those outside the U.S. you might take a trip or two.....

[Black Dog]

And yes, I guess you're right. Those French adore getting their cars burned, the Brits love getting blown up on subways, the Spaniards are in total glee about their trains blowing up. And as for Holland ... can't beat politians & film makers being murdered in the streets.

Because everyone knows those are, like, everyday occurances.

Please. London is not Mosul, Brussels is not Baghdad. Hell, it's not even L.A.

Eurabia is one laugh after another.

What is this "Eurabia" you speak of (other than a place that exists only in the fevered minds of fantasists and nuts like Mark Steyn, Daniel Pipes and our own Montygomery Burns)?

[tml12]

You know, I am suspicious about the title of this thread.

"Canadians Bashing Canadians...Why?"

We are debating issues of importance to all of us who live here. I don't think we "bash" each other, although sometimes the debate can get a little crazy. But after all, we are humans before anything else.

[America1]

I'm thinking that you may not have traveled much internationally. You refer to Europe as a socialist nightmare. Do you have knowledge of the systems and tax rates in European countries? When all is considered, taxes might be somewhat higher in Europe ,but aside from medical and pension, the system is built on building a better mousetrap than the other guy.

Do you know that the minimum wage in Ireland,Denmark,Netherlands Etc is in excess of $10 per hr with medical civerage? There are no 70 yr old women working in the Waffle House at 0200 to make their rent!

The so called freedom our kid s enjoy is a minimum wage of $5.15 per hr. which is in essence creating a smorgasborg, or buffet for international business to feast on. The U.S. has the cheapest wages in the western industrialized world, and our leaders intend to keep it that way. So before you start to berate those outside the U.S. you might take a trip or two.....

You arrogant SOB. I've been all over Europe (GB, Netherlands, German, France, Italy, Check rep, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg). You don't know Sh*t about me. So don't assume.

Slightly higher? The taxes are MUCH higher, on top of that, the EU unemployment is nearly double than the US, almost tipple in some countries when broken out.

Why would you brag about their min wage? It's pathetic; it's like bragging about being the dumbest in the class. Min wage is for the most unskilled workers to have a bare min. Not exactly something you should be banking your family’s income on. Hell, get a second job if you don’t like, nobody said live was easy.

BTW, in your example our '70 yr old women' wouldn't need to work b/c she would have Social Security and Medicare, among many other social services provided by the US. Not to mention whatever retirement plan she had built up throughout her life.

[Guest eureka]

Next time you travel open your eyes! And the real unemployment rate in the US is as bad as in any European country: you just don't count your part timers and contract workers and a couple of other categories.

Your minimum wage earners and elderly are so well off I am sure. Income equality in the US is the highest in the world: no exceptions. Higher than in any Western countryHigher than in China, India, or any Third World country.

Time to take a look at yourself.

[America1]

Next time you travel open your eyes! And the real unemployment rate in the US is as bad as in any European country: you just don't count your part timers and contract workers and a couple of other categories.

Your minimum wage earners and elderly are so well off I am sure. Income equality in the US is the highest in the world: no exceptions. Higher than in any Western countryHigher than in China, India, or any Third World country.

Time to take a look at yourself.

Can you show me these "real unemployment rate" figures? I'd also like to see you economic stats that in anyway show that the US has larger economic stratification between rich and poor. I'd like to see your figures b/c I know they are BS.

Oh, yeah, I've spent time in China and Brazil and I can tell you 1st hand that both have much larger disparities between the rich and poor than the US does.

Basically what I'm saying is you are full of SH*T on everything you said!

[Riverwind]

I'd also like to see you economic stats that in anyway show that the US has larger economic stratification between rich and poor.

This article talks about the trends in the US - the artical does not bash the US so you might consider it credible.

http://www.economist.com/surveys/displayst...tory_id=4148812

[Brian]

I'm thinking that you may not have traveled much internationally. You refer to Europe as a socialist nightmare. Do you have knowledge of the systems and tax rates in European countries? When all is considered, taxes might be somewhat higher in Europe ,but aside from medical and pension, the system is built on building a better mousetrap than the other guy.

Do you know that the minimum wage in Ireland,Denmark,Netherlands Etc is in excess of $10 per hr with medical civerage? There are no 70 yr old women working in the Waffle House at 0200 to make their rent!

The so called freedom our kid s enjoy is a minimum wage of $5.15 per hr. which is in essence creating a smorgasborg, or buffet for international business to feast on. The U.S. has the cheapest wages in the western industrialized world, and our leaders intend to keep it that way. So before you start to berate those outside the U.S. you might take a trip or two.....

You arrogant SOB. I've been all over Europe (GB, Netherlands, German, France, Italy, Check rep, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg). You don't know Sh*t about me. So don't assume.

Slightly higher? The taxes are MUCH higher, on top of that, the EU unemployment is nearly double than the US, almost tipple in some countries when broken out.

Why would you brag about their min wage? It's pathetic; it's like bragging about being the dumbest in the class. Min wage is for the most unskilled workers to have a bare min. Not exactly something you should be banking your family’s income on. Hell, get a second job if you don’t like, nobody said live was easy.

BTW, in your example our '70 yr old women' wouldn't need to work b/c she would have Social Security and Medicare, among many other social services provided by the US. Not to mention whatever retirement plan she had built up throughout her life.

America1 you strike me as a very angry man with an axe to grind. Maybe your mommy didn't cuddle you enough.

[Yaro]

Can you show me these "real unemployment rate" figures? I'd also like to see you economic stats that in anyway show that the US has larger economic stratification between rich and poor. I'd like to see your figures b/c I know they are BS.

Still embarrassing yourself I see, you don't know anything and its obvious to pretty much everyone. The BLS doesn't keep those statistics, you see as long as people as slow witted as you can read whatever statistic they feel like releasing and taking it to mean the same thing as statistics released in other countries then people like you can be kept on the treadmill with the tiniest piece of cheese, congrats.

Oh, yeah, I've spent time in China and Brazil and I can tell you 1st hand that both have much larger disparities between the rich and poor than the US does.

I have spent a great deal of time in China as well, and I find it hard to believe that anyone who has been there wants to compare themselves to China. Not that its at all reasonable to compare an area that's been settled for 5000 years to an area that's essentially been settled for 300. And Brazil is for all intents and purposes a 3rd world country, congrats the US has been income equity then a 3rd world country.

You arrogant SOB. I've been all over Europe (GB, Netherlands, German, France, Italy, Check rep, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg). You don't know Sh*t about me. So don't assume.

I don't believe you. Nobody could have traveled extensively in Europe and suggest that its a nightmare state.

Slightly higher? The taxes are MUCH higher, on top of that, the EU unemployment is nearly double than the US, almost tipple in some countries when broken out.

In some of Europe the tax rates are moderately higher, in others its lower. Besides which tax rate are you talking about exactly? Income Tax, Corporate Tax, Vat's, Sales Taxes, Production Taxes, Property Taxes?

Why would you brag about their min wage? It's pathetic; it's like bragging about being the dumbest in the class. Min wage is for the most unskilled workers to have a bare min. Not exactly something you should be banking your family’s income on. Hell, get a second job if you don’t like, nobody said live was easy.

I doubt anyone here earns minimum wage, not that you would even understand the point. You see wage disparity ratios are a very good sign of significant social and economic issues. All of the most productive societies in the history of the planet had relatively low disparity ratios, Germany in the 30's, Russia in the 20's, the US in the 60's, Japan in the 70's and 80's. A high disparity has almost uniformly been followed problematic periods for nations, like the US in the 1890's and 1920's, Argentina in the 70's, Russia in the 70's, and I suppose now in the UK and US will be added to that list soon enough.

BTW, in your example our '70 yr old women' wouldn't need to work b/c she would have Social Security and Medicare, among many other social services provided by the US. Not to mention whatever retirement plan she had built up throughout her life.

Ya I am sure, because its not like "guaranteed pension funds" are disappearing left right and center to be bailed out by the US government at 50 cents on the dollar and I am sure that all those seniors working in walmart and kmart - although I am sure not for long considering their health issues just love to be out there working at 70.

We are debating issues of importance to all of us who live here. I don't think we "bash" each other, although sometimes the debate can get a little crazy. But after all, we are humans before anything else.

While I have no problem with Canada bashing (freedom of speech and all), are you seriously trying to tell me that there aren't a significant minority on this board who bash Canada every chance they get? Leafless? Montgomery?

[Black Dog]

Slightly higher? The taxes are MUCH higher, on top of that, the EU unemployment is nearly double than the US, almost tipple in some countries when broken out.

There's more than 25 countries in the EU and unemployment varies tremendously between member states. Former Soviet-Bloc countries tend to be worse off than long-standing liberal democracies like Ireland, Denmark and the Netherlands, which have unemployment rates that compare favourably with North American rates.

But that's an aside, really. The larger point is that economic measures are not the only measure of success or quality.

[tml12]

America1,

I do not consider your views to be extreme at all but you really need to work on your deliverance.

[America1]

Can you show me these "real unemployment rate" figures? I'd also like to see you economic stats that in anyway show that the US has larger economic stratification between rich and poor. I'd like to see your figures b/c I know they are BS.

Still embarrassing yourself I see, you don't know anything and its obvious to pretty much everyone. The BLS doesn't keep those statistics, you see as long as people as slow witted as you can read whatever statistic they feel like releasing and taking it to mean the same thing as statistics released in other countries then people like you can be kept on the treadmill with the tiniest piece of cheese, congrats.

Oh, yeah, I've spent time in China and Brazil and I can tell you 1st hand that both have much larger disparities between the rich and poor than the US does.

I have spent a great deal of time in China as well, and I find it hard to believe that anyone who has been there wants to compare themselves to China. Not that its at all reasonable to compare an area that's been settled for 5000 years to an area that's essentially been settled for 300. And Brazil is for all intents and purposes a 3rd world country, congrats the US has been income equity then a 3rd world country.

You arrogant SOB. I've been all over Europe (GB, Netherlands, German, France, Italy, Check rep, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg). You don't know Sh*t about me. So don't assume.

I don't believe you. Nobody could have traveled extensively in Europe and suggest that its a nightmare state.

Slightly higher? The taxes are MUCH higher, on top of that, the EU unemployment is nearly double than the US, almost tipple in some countries when broken out.

In some of Europe the tax rates are moderately higher, in others its lower. Besides which tax rate are you talking about exactly? Income Tax, Corporate Tax, Vat's, Sales Taxes, Production Taxes, Property Taxes?

Why would you brag about their min wage? It's pathetic; it's like bragging about being the dumbest in the class. Min wage is for the most unskilled workers to have a bare min. Not exactly something you should be banking your family’s income on. Hell, get a second job if you don’t like, nobody said live was easy.

I doubt anyone here earns minimum wage, not that you would even understand the point. You see wage disparity ratios are a very good sign of significant social and economic issues. All of the most productive societies in the history of the planet had relatively low disparity ratios, Germany in the 30's, Russia in the 20's, the US in the 60's, Japan in the 70's and 80's. A high disparity has almost uniformly been followed problematic periods for nations, like the US in the 1890's and 1920's, Argentina in the 70's, Russia in the 70's, and I suppose now in the UK and US will be added to that list soon enough.

BTW, in your example our '70 yr old women' wouldn't need to work b/c she would have Social Security and Medicare, among many other social services provided by the US. Not to mention whatever retirement plan she had built up throughout her life.

Ya I am sure, because its not like "guaranteed pension funds" are disappearing left right and center to be bailed out by the US government at 50 cents on the dollar and I am sure that all those seniors working in walmart and kmart - although I am sure not for long considering their health issues just love to be out there working at 70.

We are debating issues of importance to all of us who live here. I don't think we "bash" each other, although sometimes the debate can get a little crazy. But after all, we are humans before anything else.

While I have no problem with Canada bashing (freedom of speech and all), are you seriously trying to tell me that there aren't a significant minority on this board who bash Canada every chance they get? Leafless? Montgomery?

I'm still waiting for your stats that back up your nonsense.

[Black Dog]

I'm still waiting for your stats that back up your nonsense.

I'm still waiting for your explanation for why European countries consitently fare better than North American ones in terms of quality of life. Obviously, high taxes and unemployment (in some countries) aren't the whole picture, which is decidedly not the dystopian nightmare you suggest.

[rhumbline]

I'm thinking that you may not have traveled much internationally. You refer to Europe as a socialist nightmare. Do you have knowledge of the systems and tax rates in European countries? When all is considered, taxes might be somewhat higher in Europe ,but aside from medical and pension, the system is built on building a better mousetrap than the other guy.

Do you know that the minimum wage in Ireland,Denmark,Netherlands Etc is in excess of $10 per hr with medical civerage? There are no 70 yr old women working in the Waffle House at 0200 to make their rent!

The so called freedom our kid s enjoy is a minimum wage of $5.15 per hr. which is in essence creating a smorgasborg, or buffet for international business to feast on. The U.S. has the cheapest wages in the western industrialized world, and our leaders intend to keep it that way. So before you start to berate those outside the U.S. you might take a trip or two.....

You arrogant SOB. I've been all over Europe (GB, Netherlands, German, France, Italy, Check rep, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg). You don't know Sh*t about me. So don't assume.

Slightly higher? The taxes are MUCH higher, on top of that, the EU unemployment is nearly double than the US, almost tipple in some countries when broken out.

Why would you brag about their min wage? It's pathetic; it's like bragging about being the dumbest in the class. Min wage is for the most unskilled workers to have a bare min. Not exactly something you should be banking your family’s income on. Hell, get a second job if you don’t like, nobody said live was easy.

BTW, in your example our '70 yr old women' wouldn't need to work b/c she would have Social Security and Medicare, among many other social services provided by the US. Not to mention whatever retirement plan she had built up throughout her life.

Arrogant Sob HUh! first off with the list of countries you mentioned,it sounds like you had a great ski vacation, secondly, don't pull the more patriotic than you crap with me! You sound like a trust funder who is afraid his bubble will burst. Do not even begin to compare you travels with me as a reference,because you will get a rude awakening, I will start with the Saigon River in 1968. My apology to the people of this site,however as an american, I'm a bit tired of this mentality representing me,and could not let this go...

[America1]

Arrogant Sob HUh! first off with the list of countries you mentioned,it sounds like you had a great ski vacation, secondly, don't pull the more patriotic than you crap with me! You sound like a trust funder who is afraid his bubble will burst. Do not even begin to compare you travels with me as a reference,because you will get a rude awakening, I will start with the Saigon River in 1968. My apology to the people of this site,however as an american, I'm a bit tired of this mentality representing me,and could not let this go...

-Yeah, arrogant. That's how you came off. You were trying to belittle my experiences, as if you would have any idea where I’ve been or what I’ve done.

-My travel(s) has nothing to do with "ski vacations". Again, you have no idea who I am, so why assume?

-I'm not afraid of a "bubble bursting" and I'm not a "trust fund kid".

-I'm not trying to represent you; I don't know you from a whole in the wall. We live in a big country with lots of different people; I think others get that as well.

You are inferring that you served in Nam, if so, I respect your service but,,, what does that have to do with you starting this thread off with bull sh*t about losing licenses and being put on no fly lists, and crap about “threatening the planet”. Doesn’t sound too patriotic to me.

[tml12]

Arrogant Sob HUh! first off with the list of countries you mentioned,it sounds like you had a great ski vacation, secondly, don't pull the more patriotic than you crap with me! You sound like a trust funder who is afraid his bubble will burst. Do not even begin to compare you travels with me as a reference,because you will get a rude awakening, I will start with the Saigon River in 1968. My apology to the people of this site,however as an american, I'm a bit tired of this mentality representing me,and could not let this go...

-Yeah, arrogant. That's how you came off. You were trying to belittle my experiences, as if you would have any idea where I’ve been or what I’ve done.

-My travel(s) has nothing to do with "ski vacations". Again, you have no idea who I am, so why assume?

-I'm not afraid of a "bubble bursting" and I'm not a "trust fund kid".

-I'm not trying to represent you; I don't know you from a whole in the wall. We live in a big country with lots of different people; I think others get that as well.

You are inferring that you served in Nam, if so, I respect your service but,,, what does that have to do with you starting this thread off with bull sh*t about losing licenses and being put on no fly lists, and crap about “threatening the planet”. Doesn’t sound too patriotic to me.

You know America1, I had a cousin like you that lives in the U.S. Very conservative, pro-Bush, pro-Iraq, basically would agree with everything you have said here on this forum.

He was in the U.S. Navy, received numerous medals including the Purple Heart, and served in the Korean War.

On Canada? Basically he said the same things you have been saying...socialist state, anti-American, horrible and useless. It didn't mind that some of his cousins lived here...

A while back, I asked him to come here and stay with me. Naturally, he resisted at first, saying he wouldn't spend his money here, etc. I finally convinced him, saying that he'd be staying with me, etc.

WELL, he came...not just to Canada, but to Quebec...French Canada. And, I might add, had a wonderful time. He concluded by saying that although there were differences in the nations, he thought that Canada was a wonderful place overall. He was surpirsed at how the people didn't yell at him or spit at him because he was American and was very impressed with the trip overall. He said he had a greater appreciation for Canadians and a new respect for the struggles that both of our citizens go through.

My point here? Don't come on to this forum instigating Canadians. You might be surpised with how you'd be treated if you came here. Naturally, I assume your views of Canada are based on typecasts that you have seen in the U.S. media, etc. But I can assure you, the only reason that some people on this board might have gotten angry at you is because you have become come here to start something.

I hope you will accept this as constructive criticism...it was intended as nothing else but to inform you that Canada may yet surprise you with our goodwill toward all...

[Black Dog]

You are inferring that you served in Nam, if so, I respect your service but,,, what does that have to do with you starting this thread off with bull sh*t about losing licenses and being put on no fly lists, and crap about “threatening the planet”. Doesn’t sound too patriotic to me.

So in your view, patriotism is about agreeing with everything the current administration says or does?

[America1]

You know America1, I had a cousin like you that lives in the U.S. Very conservative, pro-Bush, pro-Iraq, basically would agree with everything you have said here on this forum.

He was in the U.S. Navy, received numerous medals including the Purple Heart, and served in the Korean War.

On Canada? Basically he said the same things you have been saying...socialist state, anti-American, horrible and useless. It didn't mind that some of his cousins lived here...

A while back, I asked him to come here and stay with me. Naturally, he resisted at first, saying he wouldn't spend his money here, etc. I finally convinced him, saying that he'd be staying with me, etc.

WELL, he came...not just to Canada, but to Quebec...French Canada. And, I might add, had a wonderful time. He concluded by saying that although there were differences in the nations, he thought that Canada was a wonderful place overall. He was surpirsed at how the people didn't yell at him or spit at him because he was American and was very impressed with the trip overall. He said he had a greater appreciation for Canadians and a new respect for the struggles that both of our citizens go through.

My point here? Don't come on to this forum instigating Canadians. You might be surpised with how you'd be treated if you came here. Naturally, I assume your views of Canada are based on typecasts that you have seen in the U.S. media, etc. But I can assure you, the only reason that some people on this board might have gotten angry at you is because you have become come here to start something.

I hope you will accept this as constructive criticism...it was intended as nothing else but to inform you that Canada may yet surprise you with our goodwill toward all...

Sounds like you cousin is a good dude .

I understand that I probably come off as aggressive but you must admit. This forum (for the most part) has a very critical edge when speaking about the America, Americans and especially the Bush admin and conservative. And since I am a conservative American, I get annoyed with the constant trashing.

Every time I have come across Canadians in person, they seem to be generally good people. Perhaps that's why I get so annoyed with the way you put us down. It would be like a good friend talking who talks about you badly behind your back.