The Perfect State

[Eriond]

Hi. I'm new here. What's up?

Anyway, I'll get straight to the point. I've browsed through the forums, and I've seen very few posts dealing directly with people's ideologies, and / or vision for the future of Canada, most deal with political commentary on the different parties and their leaders.

What do you think the perfect Canadian state would consist of? You don't have to go into insane amounts of detail, just post a few bullets about the major points of your ideal system. (And don't put "Harper/Martin/Layton/Duceppe (though on this board I don't think that's a problem) in Power" )

Just curious about where everyone stands, and what they truly want

[speaker]

This is a tough one, obviously. I'd be interested in peoples views on this one too. It's my impression that we are pretty damn lucky to live in as good a state as we do. We are incredibly wealthy, even our poor, in their share of ownership in this country are wealthy beyond our ambitious dreams.

Our health despite our constant concern for more and improved care, is as good as any one has ever had it, if not better. Hopefully our democracy will evolve away from, instead of the typical downslide into more, corruption and patronage of the last thirty years. People who really don't want to be in politics should be elected anyway.

It would be better if Canadians were a little more interested in our resources. This is by way of an understatement. and a little less interested in our egocentric little worlds. Naturally there wouldn't be any lawyers.

All the red tape could disappear in a heartbeat if people weren't bent......... on abusing each other, the environment, and therefore in the long run themselves.

but that gets back to egocentricity, so I'm already repeating myself. In a few bullets then Canadas pretty close to the ideal, we just like to complain a lot.

[Biblio Bibuli]

What do you think the perfect Canadian state would consist of? Just curious about where everyone stands, and what they truly want

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An American state! Preferably Hawaii!

[Slavik44]

The perfect state?

No poverty, No needless death, no starvation, everyone has a mantion on the beach and a summer house on a ski mountain, we have government paid teleportation devices to take us from place to place instantly, there is no crime, and because of this pervection there is no need for any government interference in our lives.

But I don't belive that is what you meant so I will present Slavik's Lucky 7 keys to Canada's Future.

1. Crime, Drugs, and Harm Reduction

-Weed and Seed policies; take the serious offenders off the streets and provide extensive help for the rehabilitation of minor offenders.

-Alternative justice and youth; We cannot expect to rehabilitate youth by throwing them in a building with criminals and then releasing them into the general public. Canada has the highest youth incarceration rates in the western world due largely to incarceration for minor crimes.

Drugs; Legalize posesion of Marijuana and sale in Government approved stores.

-Needle Exchange Programs; we need to increase funding to such programs, promising results have come out of Brazil that suggest a penny spent is actually many more saved and with higher funding came drastic increases in results.

2. Health Care

Follow the French; Health care is apparently a defining Canadian thing but if that is the case the French are more Canadian than We are. We must as Canadians recognize that whatever the case it matters not what health care system we have but that we have one that meets the needs of all Canadians, when they need it. Not our current day late and a dollar short system.

3. The environment and sustanability

Kyoto Accord; Is the earth warming or the sky falling and what role do humans play in it? We may never have a satisfactory answer for everyone. But almost everyone should agree that we cannot afford to continualy waste energy. I don't care wether or not we follow kyoto but the time has come for us to take a step and do something. The government needs to take its own advice and take action towards alternative energy sources and the conservation of energy.

4. Local Representation and Democratic Reform

The best representation will generaly come from those closer to home, I trust my MP, my MLA, and my Mayor much more than I do Gilles Duceppe. While I am not interested in a weak Federal government or an overly strong Provincial government, or a country of city states I do belive that the Federal government can hand some powers over to Local politicians.

Judges; Currently judges are appointed by the federal Government, I do not feel the need to elect Judges or make the law subject to mob mentality and political campaigns. However, I do belive that instead of presenting the federal government with a list of candadites to appoint we should look at presenting provincial governments with a list of candadites to appoint. As well under the current system the federal government appoints the judges to The supreme and appelete courts of the province I see no reason why the province can't also have some power in the matter.

Electoral systems; While I belvie the bestrepresentation is found close to home it must also be acknowledged that there are many people under this system whose vote goes to waste who are not represented so I feel that there shoudl be a move to a include a party list Proportional component of the electoral process.

5. Education

Knowledged Based Economy; We live in a country where a good education is not only an investment in your own future but an investment in the future of this country. Having better high schools is a key to this, very often high school sare limited in the Mechanical arts offerings and it is no wonder why we are struggling to fill positions in skilled trades when such courses are ignored at the high school and when noticted are seen as a way to slack off and smoke pot, while we invest in universities we must also invest in high schools especially in Mechanical Arts Programs.

6. Athletics

Everyone has heard about the trickle down affect but what about the new and improved rushing up affect. A healthy lifestly encouraged from youth my cost money but in the long run it saves money it is another case of a peny spent to save a dollar, I would rather pay $60 a year so little jimmy can play soccer than to pay $1,000 a year after little jimmy gets high cholesterol and heart complications at age 12. I would like to see the government step up and help parents pay for children to play sports while recognizing that a tax refund on $35,000 may not be the trick. Besides if you keep kids busy and active you give them less time to get in trouble and sports certanly are a more constructive challange than shop lifting.

7. Canadian Armed Forces

Natural Disasters; It may have been a while since we faught a major war, but almost every year some community/province in Canada is under attack from a natural disaster, It is then important to see an increase in soldiers in the Canadian millitary and increased training to deal with natural disasters for these soldiers

Peacekeeping; Another thing that Canadians liek to describe themselves as is peace keepers, but the capacity of our current millitary is not at a level where we can fully partake in peacekeeping and provision of aid to countries in crisis.

[PolyNewbie]

The bill of rights of the USA is what we need to improve this country.

We do not have any rights and our bill of rights should be published on toilet paper

[Drea]

What part of the Canadian Charter of Rights would you change?

What part of the USA Bill of Rights would you adopt?

BTW, Bush recently called the Constitution a "Goddamn piece of paper".

OUR Bill of Rights is certainly MORE than a goddamn piece of paper IMO. There are many in the USA who feel the same way I do - don't friggin mess with our rights!

[Leafless]

Eriond

You wrote- " What do you think the perfect Canadian stae would consist of?"

You must be joking?

After 133 years of Canada being labelled a country, we still have third world problems here and are still not unified.

Therefore I would say the perfect Candian state would be to create the true status of a country and a stable Constitution before proceeding any futher.

[StarSong]

Well I'm from England, so i have to admit striaght off that i don't really know about your country very much, and I'd be being rude if i attempted to pretend otherwise.

But surely, maybe i'm idealistic and naive, but doen't everyone want the same? equality, just poiliticians, no poverty, a good environment, good medical etc?

maybe if all countries concentrated on those things, and perhaps looked to improving others as well as their own countries, we'd all get on better too

[Liam]

May I apply this question to the US since I am American?

My ideal US would look like this:

- we would be committed to educational excellence, even if it meant ocassionally disagreeing with teachers unions

- we would gradually work toward energy independence by putting more emphasis on solar, wind, nuclear and renewable energy sources rather than relying on imported and domestically produced petroleum

- our population would be more concentrated in cities rather than in vast suburban and exurban developments and we'd build more public transportation infrastructure

- we would put more emphasis on diplomatic solutions to world events, but keep our military fully armed and at the ready should diplomacy fail or should there be an international crisis

- we would forever separate church and state particularly since each is so completely meddlesome in the other's business

- we would really value families by protecting vacation time, provide for more fully paid maternity and paternity leaves, and some federal funding for daycares so that the working poor can actually afford to go to work

- internationally and domestically, we would put greater emphasis on individual rights, civil liberties and economic freedom

- at a minimum, we would guarantee free health care for children and the elderly (how conservatives can claim to be pro-life but against guaranteeing health care to the weakest members of society makes my head spin)

- we would have a flatter tax system that didn't punish people with higher tax rates as they became more successful

[Guest eureka]

Welcome to Canada's NDP -almost - Liam!

[Liam]

Welcome to Canada's NDP -almost - Liam!

But isn't the NDP much more liberal than many of the points I raise? While a Democrat here in the US (and I see myself as fairly moderate, but to a red stater I am probably a flaming liberal), I firmly believe that government can often be the problem, not the solution. For example, I am more a fan of free enterprise and a flatter tax scheme. I am a strong proponent of maintaining military preparedness (and the use of it under the right circumstances) and I am a big fan of law and order. On the other hand, I am a firm believer in gay marriage -- thank goodness I live in Massachusetts where it is legal. But, dare I say this on a Canadian board?, I support the right for an individual to own a gun. Am I still a semi-NDPer?

[speaker]

May I apply this question to the US since I am American?

My ideal US would look like this:

- we would be committed to educational excellence, even if it meant ocassionally disagreeing with teachers unions

- we would gradually work toward energy independence by putting more emphasis on solar, wind, nuclear and renewable energy sources rather than relying on imported and domestically produced petroleum

- our population would be more concentrated in cities rather than in vast suburban and exurban developments and we'd build more public transportation infrastructure

- we would put more emphasis on diplomatic solutions to world events, but keep our military fully armed and at the ready should diplomacy fail or should there be an international crisis

- we would forever separate church and state particularly since each is so completely meddlesome in the other's business

- we would really value families by protecting vacation time, provide for more fully paid maternity and paternity leaves, and some federal funding for daycares so that the working poor can actually afford to go to work

- internationally and domestically, we would put greater emphasis on individual rights, civil liberties and economic freedom

- at a minimum, we would guarantee free health care for children and the elderly (how conservatives can claim to be pro-life but against guaranteeing health care to the weakest members of society makes my head spin)

- we would have a flatter tax system that didn't punish people with higher tax rates as they became more successful

Just a few questions Liam, why would you throw nuclear in with the renewable alternatives? the cleaner, less expensive options are already there.

Why concentrate the population in cities? The bigger the conglomeration the greater the problems the country has supporting that part of the population.

With your obvious concern for the weaker members of society why would you want to perpetuate that misery by opting for a flatter tax system. One persons wealth is anothers unfortune.

[Liam]

Just a few questions Liam, why would you throw nuclear in with the renewable alternatives? the cleaner, less expensive options are already there.

Why concentrate the population in cities? The bigger the conglomeration the greater the problems the country has supporting that part of the population.

With your obvious concern for the weaker members of society why would you want to perpetuate that misery by opting for a flatter tax system. One persons wealth is anothers unfortune.

Why nuclear? I put nuclear in there because the US's current power needs probably cannot be met by renewable energy sources alone. I recognize that nuclear power has its own environmental dangers, but when operated safely and securely its overall environmental impact is less than millions of combustion engines fueled by petroleum and thousands of coal-fired power plants.

Why concentrate population in cities? Suburban and exurban sprawl eats up acreage blighting the landscape with McMansions and strip malls, requires miles and miles of road infrastructure, furthers the reliance of cars and petroleum consumption, intrudes on natural habitats, and isolates people into self-segregating communities. I disagree that city concentration causes societal problems. I think you're looking at city life post-white flight when the middle class moved out leaving the poorer working classes in many city centers. If the middle class started moving back into cities, they'd be ideal places to live. Look at Europe.

Why a flatter tax? I think a tax structure that is too progressive punishes people who become successful and that's neither right nor fair. Certainly I wouldn't want to harm those at the margins of society by going with a perfectly flat tax system (and in order for it to be perfectly flat while aiding the poor and needy, the tax rate would be so high as to be punitive towards everyone), but I would like to see a tax system where the highest and lowest tax rates are closer than how they exist in the US today.

[speaker]

Liam

It would be very difficult to come upo with any form of, or mix of energy that would continue to meet the USA's current power needs including carbon based motor forms. The question then is if it wouldn't be better to reduce current needs, many countries are able to get by on less usage. What are the chances that Americans will be ready to move that way any time soon?

I wasn't talking about social problems in the sense you mean, if I understand you correctly. I was talking more in terms of the necessity of funneling all of the tangible resources of society, from agricultural produce, forest produce, and energy, to the intangibles to like security, environmental well being, and health into relatively concentrated little patches of land. And then having to solve the problems of waste of all those resources back out of the cities, and the costs associated with all of that.

I'm not too confident of my understanding of the role of education spending, health care, physical training, etc. in American life but in Canada much of these benefits are assisted by the commons, ( from general taxation and revenue). People who benefit from these services the most tend to be the ones who are most successful in life. I look on a graduated tax as a means for people to repay some of their good fortune, so that society can continue to provide that assistance to other deserving young people.

[PolyNewbie]

I would change the bill of rights so that we receive adequate protection from persecution. Freedom from persecution is what they call it.

In Canada lawyers can pretty much do as they please and they can actually just go around screwing people for the pure joy of it with no legal basis whatsover. Its not "allowed" but if it happens to you there is nothing you can do about it.

The Law Society is a joke and lawyers are like children - they will not tell on their buddies. You cannot just go to a police station and report a crime committed by a lawyer - even if you have witnesses. You have to get another lawyer who is willing to stick his/her neck out. Given the character of these people and their belief that they should be above responsibility that is pretty hard.

Other countries don't let lawyers get away with what they can get away with in Canada.

[speaker]

I forgot to mention economists in my earlier post. I'ld go so far as to ban them, and if that's too extreme I'ld consider just making them work in the rice paddies for a month or two each year.

[Hollus]

I like daydreaming...

-Freeze all City Limits

-Population control

-War on personal auto's(rebuild infastructure for rapid trans.)

-convert to Green energy

-re-work capatilism to accept sustainable development, or turf capatilism and start anew.

-Universal human rights

-A nation of world citizens breaking down nationalism, promoting social/political awarness and responsibilties of a contributing person.

BEEPBEEEPBEEP

...aw damn back to reality.

[BHS]

What part of the Canadian Charter of Rights would you change?

What part of the USA Bill of Rights would you adopt?

BTW, Bush recently called the Constitution a "Goddamn piece of paper".

OUR Bill of Rights is certainly MORE than a goddamn piece of paper IMO. There are many in the USA who feel the same way I do - don't friggin mess with our rights!

I was doing my usual rounds among the blogs and came across this interesting development, and I thought back to this post. I discovered this morning that the "Goddamn piece of paper" myth has been more or less debunked, as well as a number of other myths about Bush, all of which appear to have had a site called Capitol Hill Blue as there source:

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/003880.html

(I've supplied the link for posterity only. There's a lot of reading there, a lot of links, and a lot of backstory.)