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If there are as many as 100 genders...


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9 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

And nobody thinks there are 100 genders

Also, nobody can come to a consensus as to how many genders that there are. Many experts stating that this is either too "complicated" or that this is impossible to quantify.

Which is why it is hard to take seriously, unless we are talking he or she pronouns.

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Gender = cultural.

Sex = biological.

Obstetricians gender children at birth. Not that difficult to do.

And nobody thinks there are 100 genders.

The STUPID never stops.

https://englishgrammarplus.com/100-genders-list-with-meanings/

100 Genders List With Meanings

100 Genders List! There are now over 100 recognized genders, thanks to the work of activists and scholars who have pushed for a more expansive understanding of gender. Here is a list of some of the most common genders:

This tranny shit is very new. This is what happens when normal people don't LAUGH THEIR ASSES OFF at the kooks who continue to come up with ridiculous crap every day.

In the early 90s, Rush Limbaugh and his massive audience would have turned the GEnder battle into the most hilarious radio bits ever ran. And Rush spoke for most of America back then, as he did up to his death.

Nobody is laughing at the multi gender knuckleheads. So their !diotic opinions. (NOT BASED ON ANY SCIENCE) are being given credibility they haven't earned.

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4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Also, nobody can come to a consensus as to how many genders that there are. Many experts stating that this is either too "complicated" or that this is impossible to quantify.

Which is why it is hard to take seriously, unless we are talking he or she pronouns.

20 years ago this ridiculous shit would have been laughed out of town.

I MISS Rush Limbaugh. He was practically a neurosurgeon when it came to putting the knuckleheads in their place.

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4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Also, nobody can come to a consensus as to how many genders that there are. Many experts stating that this is either too "complicated" or that this is impossible to quantify.

Which is why it is hard to take seriously, unless we are talking he or she pronouns.

Because it's like asking how many ethnicities there are. We're talking about cultures, which don't have scientifically defined limits.

In America, there are two genders. In India, there are three. And we can't say for sure that this will always be the situation in either country, because culture changes.

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9 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Because it's like asking how many ethnicities there are.

Ethnicities are quantifiable. They can be broken down, by nationality and if you were to visit say Iraq, you would learn the various ethic groups within that country. 

I have traveled the globe, so I don't understand how you would feel it would be impossible to quantify.

While there are quite a few, to say it isn't quantifiable, would be inaccurate.

Gender is not quantifiable. It used to be. So is it that prior centuries worth of science and biology was conducted incorrectly, or that a small percentage of people were allowed to change language and even gender with impunity (and with little more than megaphone tactics and lobbying vs actually having a sound counter argument), to make things inclusive all while eradicating what it is to be a male, or even a woman to do so. 

Doctors and scientists are governed by who pays them, so one could easily be put out of business challenging this ridiculous new trend.

Keeping things vague, and shutting down anyone questioning by labeling them as bigoted, has created a culture of fear. 

Control one's mind, you control their body.

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24 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Ethnicities are quantifiable. They can be broken down, by nationality and if you were to visit say Iraq, you would learn the various ethic groups within that country. 

You're confusing ethnicity with nationality. Ethnicities are a lot harder to quantify because there's no hardline on what defines a culture. We generally just go by what society as a whole views as ethnic lines.

24 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Gender is not quantifiable. It used to be. So is it that prior centuries worth of science and biology was conducted incorrectly, or that a small percentage of people were allowed to change language and even gender with impunity (and with little more than megaphone tactics and lobbying vs actually having a sound counter argument), to make things inclusive all while eradicating what it is to be a male, or even a woman to do so. 

FFS. So like I already said, sex and gender are two different things, but now you're also proving you have no knowledge of gender and history. There have always been trans people. Right-wing media wants you to believe that Marxists just created transgenderism like ten years ago. But like gay and bi people, trans people have always been around. There have also always been societies with more than two genders.

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11 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

You're confusing ethnicity with nationality. Ethnicities are a lot harder to quantify because there's no hardline on what defines a culture. We generally just go by what society as a whole views as ethnic lines.

FFS. So like I already said, sex and gender are two different things, but now you're also proving you have no knowledge of gender and history. There have always been trans people. Right-wing media wants you to believe that Marxists just created transgenderism like ten years ago. But like gay and bi people, trans people have always been around. There have also always been societies with more than two genders.

Sex and gender are NOT two different things. Suggesting they are is like suggested every creep who sticks his hand in his coat is Napoleon.

There is male and there is female. Obstetricians make this discovery every day that a child survives Planned Babykillinghood. A group of cells becomes a boy or a girl, based on the genitals. That is basic science and has been so since the beginning of time. 

Yes there are those sick individuals who think they are a gender other than what their genitalia would say. The condition is gender dysphoria. It is a mental illness.

Homosexuality used to be (and properly) labeled a mental illness.  The "illness" factor was removed by the left wing APA, (a group who in the 90s pushed to label pedophelia as normal and not a sickness.)  Not surprising that a pedophile was able to steal the presidency.

No one is suggesting that queers are anything new. And the last time I checked, only ISLAMIC countries actually execute queers by tossing them off tall buildings. I frankly just ignore them. I don't treat them any differently from normal people. I'm polite. But I don't think queers should get any special privileges in life from GOVERNMENT based on a sickness. Homosexuality is a sickness, as is cancer, heart disease, schizophrenia, etc. As long as homos aren't throwing their sick lifestyles in my face, I don't care what they do.

I'd like to see a few credibly links suggesting that mainstream conservative news sources had correctly linked transgenderism to Marxism. (That doesn't include CNN giving it's OPINION of what Foxnews says.) Marxism (last time I check) was about ECONOMICS, about class struggle. Homos are mostly RICH, so Marx would have no love for them.

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1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

So like I already said, sex and gender are two different things

Yet you can't state how many genders are included in the "other" spectrum.

This has nothing to do with education, and everything to do with controlling speech.

There are two genders, and one anomaly (intersexed people). To consider it a gender, is to consider that some are both with 4 toes. 

If you are going to "debunk" the fact that there are two genders, you should be able to provide solid evidence to your claim. You know, via being able to quantify how many genders there really are.

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5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Yet you can't state how many genders are included in the "other" spectrum.

In America, the "other" probably refers to non-binary people. In other countries, it depends what genders the society recognizes.

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

This has nothing to do with education, and everything to do with controlling speech.

Are you seriously going to do the Jordan Peterson idiocy? 

How many people have been arrested for misgendering people in Canada? I'll give you a hint. It's less than one.

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

There are two genders, and one anomaly (intersexed people). To consider it a gender, is to consider that some are both with 4 toes. 

Intersex is a sex category, not a gender category.

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

If you are going to "debunk" the fact that there are two genders, you should be able to provide solid evidence to your claim. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

Quote

You know, via being able to quantify how many genders there really are.

How many cultures are there in Switzerland?

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47 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

How many people have been arrested for misgendering people in Canada?

How many have lost their jobs or opportunities? 

How many doctors have been pressured into silencing their dissenting views? Scientists? 

49 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

In America, the "other" probably

Probably? So you don't even know, proving my point. It eludes to the the impossible to quantify spectrum. 

Again, calling someone ignorant based on their lack of knowledge on gender yet not even being able to quantify how many genders find themselves in that spectrum, proves my point. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

How many have lost their jobs or opportunities? 

Hopefully a lot. The same way people lose opportunities for being sexist, homophobic, racist, and so on.

See, we've always discriminated against bigots. It's just that now, gender identity is a protected class like race, sex, orientation, age, nationality, and ethnicity. If you refuse to acknowledge that Asians are humans, you'll probably get fired. Is that policing speech? Well, kinda. But that's just part of living in a society.

22 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

How many doctors have been pressured into silencing their dissenting views? Scientists? 

When it comes to trans people, probably very few. Scientists accept that sex and gender are two different things. It's only the anti-science crowd on this one.

22 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Probably? So you don't even know, proving my point. It eludes to the the impossible to quantify spectrum. 

Well there might be some people who define "other" by, I don't know, dragons or something. But generally speaking, America recognizes three gender categories: men, women, and non-binary. Fringe cases don't change this.

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6 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

When it comes to trans people, probably very few.

Thats because very few are willing to go against the current social pressure to provide gender affirming surgery or treatment, right down to pediatricians at times going against their training, even though it has been debunked that such procedures do not dramatically reduce negative outcomes in the community. As a doctor, your job is to offer the best possible care for your patient. Quite a few doctors have spoken out against this, actually.

Many point to this group's initial journal entry which was debunked, yet still is being used to "show" that gender affirming treatment is the only way:

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2020.1778correction

6 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

See, we've always discriminated against bigots

Bigotry is starting to lose its meaning. Some activists will use the label to silence opinions they don't agree with, regardless of how sound the evidence is at supporting the claim being made. 

I don't think that there is a doctor out there, that would be willing to be labeled as discriminatory, so of course adoption of whatever they are told to adopt, will be done effortlessly, when the consequences are being labeled a bigot and more insulting, having people with zero medical acumen questioning their qualifications. 

6 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

If you refuse to acknowledge that Asians are humans

This would be ridiculous, based on the fact that they quite demonstrably breathe like anyone else, bleed and more obvious even, have features that will often tell you they are Asian just looking at them. 

What you're eluding to, is more of someone who is Caucasian identifying as Asian, and obtaining surgery to change their appearance, and demanding to be seen as no different. Reality, is most don't want conflict, so would just play along to keep the peace. 

6 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Is that policing speech?

Not really. There is an obvious standard. My wife is part Chinese, and part Filipina. You can tell just looking at her, that she's Asian. 

What you're supporting, is a gender ideology that has no standard. It cannot be quantified. You will have a very difficult time going against someone legally for misgendering, outside of the accepted standard of she her, he him and they them.

That hasn't stopped activists from doing so (in terms of socially shaming, and pressuring), which again begs the question. What is the standard. How many genders are there?

6 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

It's only the anti-science crowd on this one.

Or those cherry picking information to support their claims.

When you are being given new inclusive wording as a doctor by the body that employs you, you don't ask questions, or at least not publicly. This isn't indicative of approval. 

Its indicative of wanting to keep your job.

Quite a few doctors have risked it all in writing books, or debunking claims, knowing the backlash would be blistering as it would be swift.

Best to just give treatment to whoever comes into your clinic, and offer no resistance whatsoever.

You know, like a doctor discouraging medication that would destroy kidneys, and encouraging diets which is in the patients best interest. Thats their job!

Of course, the point we are debating is a case by case basis, and should be treated as such, medically. Not to appease activists.

6 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

dragons or something.

No, there are quite a few acceptable terms. Hundreds. 

My issue aren't the terms. Its the lack of standards behind them. Me refusing to use one, outside of the approved ones I mentioned earlier, could be grounds for dismissal. Acceptably  by your standards. 

Yet nobody can come to a consensus. 

To be quite honest with you, I hope I do one day get fired for this. I would enjoy every single second of not only going for my severance and unpaid vacation, but the lawsuit I would launch, to boot.

I have absolutely nothing to lose, and the sad part is it takes someone like me, to call out the insanity.

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14 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Thats because very few are willing to go against the current social pressure to provide gender affirming surgery or treatment, right down to pediatricians at times going against their training, even though it has been debunked that such procedures do not dramatically reduce negative outcomes in the community.

Source?

And please don't link me Matt Walsh.

Quote

What you're eluding to, is more of someone who is Caucasian identifying as Asian, and obtaining surgery to change their appearance, and demanding to be seen as no different. Reality, is most don't want conflict, so would just play along to keep the peace. 

No, because race is different from gender. Gender is about self-identity. You can deny reality and pretend it's the same as sex if you want, the same way you can deny reality and say Asians are not human. But in both cases, you'll have to deal with the consequences of your actions.

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2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Source?

https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/pediatric-group-accused-of-silencing-debate-about-affirmative-care-for-trans-youth

https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/07/03/im-pediatrician-transgender-ideology-infiltrated-field-produced-large-scale-child-abuse/

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-outcomes/

How many do you want? 5-10?

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

No, because race is different from gender.

"If gender is a social construct, then sexual orientation is a choice" Dr. Debrah Soh

 

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52 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

So this is what you said before: "Thats because very few are willing to go against the current social pressure to provide gender affirming surgery or treatment, right down to pediatricians at times going against their training, even though it has been debunked that such procedures do not dramatically reduce negative outcomes in the community."

That's not what the first and third link are saying. The first link is about a dispute between how to treat children with gender dysphoria that is unrelated to LGBT activists or society. I agree that doctors shouldn't be silenced, but this doesn't have anything to do with what you think it does.

The second link is from a far-right fake news site, so we're going to ignore that one.

The third link is about the importance of listening to people that detransition, which makes up less than 1% of people who transition. The article explained how there was a bit of blowback for this, because fascists use it in their anti-trans propaganda. But it also says the blowback wasn't as bad as they thought it would be. So no, these people aren't being silences by an imaginary woke mob either.

As long as fascists use detransition in their propaganda, there will always be skepticism around detransition and people who question the current procedures. But the skeptics are not silencing doctors.

 

52 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

"If gender is a social construct, then sexual orientation is a choice" Dr. Debrah Soh

 

Sexual orientation is biological. Gender is a culture that society assigns to people based on biological sex. Sex and sexual orientation are not choices. The culture you choose to be a part of is a choice.

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5 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

As long as fascists use detransition in their propaganda

So you're saying de-transition doesn't occur? Suicide dramatically drops or is all but eliminated after transition? A doctor's job is to assess on a case by case basis. Common sense means, that this requires a lot of questions to be asked. A thorough assessment to be made. Not all kids will benefit from transitioning. Again, common sense.

To use as much caution as possible, before providing medication or treatment, and certainly prior to providing surgery.

I'll side with doctors, that have common sense and heavy handed expertise, vs doctors that just read what they are told by activists.

5 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

I agree that doctors shouldn't be silenced

Or pressured to do anything. Scientists are funded by the government for the most part, and doctors are governed by government bodies. The trans activists would be wiser to use facts and biology to gain more social acceptance, than lobbying and social pressure, forcing their preferred wording to things (you lose the crowd, when you try to convince people that there are limitless genders), which is why you see so much division on the issue.

One extreme, you have fantasy, the other, you have suppression--I tend to side somewhere along the middle, where I feel doctors should be allowed to question, as long as this is done carefully, and in the best interest of the patient.

5 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Gender is a culture that society assigns to people based on biological sex.

How would you explain that in societies that embrace gender neutral practices, will still have girls with normal estrogen levels, adopt more "feminine" behaviors, and likewise with boys with normal testosterone levels, adopting more "masculine" behaviors?

Most men still gravitated towards masculine behaviors, and careers that are dominated by men, and most women gravitated to feminine like behaviors, and careers dominated by women?

The overwhelming majority of people, will naturally gravitate towards behaviors predisposed by their gender they are born with. This isn't socially created, and has long been debunked.

I'll side with common sense here, and stray from those in the media pushing extremist views.

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3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

So you're saying de-transition doesn't occur? Suicide dramatically drops or is all but eliminated after transition? A doctor's job is to assess on a case by case basis. Common sense means, that this requires a lot of questions to be asked. A thorough assessment to be made. Not all kids will benefit from transitioning. Again, common sense.

No, I said that as long as fascists use detransition in their propaganda, people will be skeptical of talk of detransition. It's a shame, because by mudding the water, they makes it harder to talk about trans issues and improve gender affirming care. But generally, the medical industry is doing a good job. Sex reassignment surgery has a less than 1% regret rate, which makes it one of the most successful surgeries in the world. And yeah, not all kids with gender dysphoria should transition, which is why not all of them do. 

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

To use as much caution as possible, before providing medication or treatment, and certainly prior to providing surgery.

I'll side with doctors, that have common sense and heavy handed expertise, vs doctors that just read what they are told by activists.

Stop watching right-wing propaganda. Doctors already use as much caution as possible. That's why people, even adults, have to see therapists and psychiatrists before transitioning. It's an extremely long process, not something that happens in an afternoon like the media wants us to think.

And really, who has more money and power? Trans activists or the billionaires that fund right-wing media? If doctors really wanted to put ethics aside and just make money, they'd side with the Right.

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

How would you explain that in societies that embrace gender neutral practices, will still have girls with normal estrogen levels, adopt more "feminine" behaviors, and likewise with boys with normal testosterone levels, adopting more "masculine" behaviors?

There are no societies that have gender neutral practices. Literally since we're born, society conditions us to act the way gender norms dictate. The real question should be why have gender norms changed throughout history? And the reason is because most gender norms have nothing to do with biology. Gender is culture, culture changes.

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I'll side with common sense here, and stray from those in the media pushing extremist views.

Please do that. Consider that gender is different in different time periods and regional cultures. Don't believe whatever right-wing media tells you.

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2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

fascists

Who are you eluding to? Be specific. "Fascists" don't resonate as factual, just like someone saying "fake news" without providing context.

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

has a less than 1% regret rate

Source? What about suicide post treatment? 

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

which makes it one of the most successful surgeries in the world

So there are no common complications to these surgeries?

Why would anyone want to caution against a 99% success rate, and almost zero complications?

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

which is why not all of them do. 

The issue isn't the treatment, is that doctors are pressured to present this option to more people who would actually be best of with alternative means of treatment.

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Trans activists or the billionaires that fund right-wing media?

Uh, Trans activists. When you have the power to lobby against businesses in a consumer society, media will pale in comparison. Especially when it is also flooded with trans activism.

Activism is great. I am not so behind the extremism.

 

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