Canadians' standard of living drops below the US

[Montgomery Burns]

Canada’s economy and living standards will continue to fall further behind the U.S. over the next few years, a Bay Street think-tank says.

"Over the 2003-2006 period, growth in Canada will fall short of that in the U.S. every year, and cumulatively this will add up to about 3.3 percentage points of growth over the four-year period,” Global Insight said. “That is more than one full year’s worth of growth over a four-year period. As a result, Canada’s standard of living will fall from 87% of the U.S. level in 2002 to about 84% by the end of 2005.”

It says Canada’s economy will grow by 2.8% this year, a slight improvement over its previous forecast of 2.6%, and again next year. The U.S. economy will grow by more than 3.5% this year and more than 3% in 2006, it says. The U.S. economy grew faster than Canada’s for the past two years.

Bush is evil

Damn you Bush and your evil tax cuts!

*furiously shakes his fist*

[LotusLandLunatic]

Canada’s standard of living will fall from 87% of the U.S. level in 2002 to about 84% by the end of 2005.”

Canada's standard of living at 87% of the U.S. my foot !

70%, on the best day!!

LLL

[Shady]

Yep, instead we continue to over-tax and over-regulate our economy.

[Toro]

Yep, instead we continue to over-tax and over-regulate our economy.

That may be true, but Canada is helluva lot better than France or Germany. Canada is more like the UK, and is - as the French would say - more so resembles the "Anglo-American" rather than the European social model.

[LotusLandLunatic]

That may be true, but Canada is helluva lot better than France or Germany.

In today's NP David Frum talks about the French. About how they have created a category of 'intermittent' workers - actors for example (Michael Harding would love that) who draw benefits from the government when not at work, displaced factory workers who government classifies as 'disabled' so they can collect money, workers who are permitted to retire at age 55.

In the meantime Canada is seriously discussing extending the retirement age beyond 65.

I wouldn't call that better, let alone "a helluva lot better".

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Montgomery Burns,

The US economy is a house of cards, set for a really, really bad fall. Shouldn't be, but Reagan and now Bush spent wayyyy more than they ought to, and not doing the things they need to to in order to stave off future disaster. A better quality of life is a subjective look, at best.

Imagine your neighbor gets a shiny new credit card and promptly buys a bunch of shiny new toys. Imagine his income (though larger than yours, he has a bigger house and therefore more bills) is enough to pay his bills and credit debt, but it isn't enough so he gets another credit card. Then, he racks that up, so he gets another card that he uses to pay off the debts on the first two. Then, he gets another and another, racking up larger and larger debt, with nowhere near the income required to maintain that debt. But, he has lots of toys. He will be ok for a while, because the credit companies see that he has several credit cards already, so he automatically qualifies for another. One day, however.....

I realize that this is an over-simplistic analogy, but defecit spending can only go on so long as foreign investment makes up the shortfall. To claim that the US is 'rich' by having the largest debt is folly.

[LotusLandLunatic]

Canada is helluva lot better than France or Germany.

Even if this is true, isn't it how one is faring compared to the Jonses that counts?

I drive & shop in the U.S. regularly, I've got a NEXUS pass. And what I have found is that today just about everything in the under $100 category is cheaper there.

Even the damn Costco prices are lower in Washington State than here in BC! :angry:

[LotusLandLunatic]

Even the damn Costco prices are lower in Washington State than here in BC! :angry:

Thinking I was getting an excellent deal on Gatorade ( $ 21.89 for a case of 24) at my corner Costco store, I used to practically live on that stuff. But once I found out that the same case of Gatorade costs only $14.59 in the U.S. (under 18 Canadian), I can not justify spanding that extra 4 bucks so it's back to running on plain water again.

[LotusLandLunatic]

Even the damn Costco prices are lower in Washington State than here in BC! :angry:

Thinking I was getting an excellent deal on Gatorade ( $ 21.89 for a case of 24) at my corner Costco store, I used to practically live on that stuff. But once I found out that the same case of Gatorade costs only $14.59 in the U.S. (under 18 Canadian), I can not justify spanding that extra 4 bucks so it's back to running on plain water again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what you must be saying to yourselves,

if that's the way he feels about it why doesn't he just stop jogging?

Oh, no, not me. I'm in no hurry for that final disappointment,

for I know just as well as I'm standing here talking to you,

when that Chicago Marathon comes I will be there, and I'll be ahead of BillC, bettering his personal record of two hours and thirty five minutes ... saying to myself ....... Grolsch anyone?

[Shady]

The US economy is a house of cards, set for a really, really bad fall. Shouldn't be, but Reagan and now Bush spent wayyyy more than they ought to

No, the US economy is not a house of cards. That's pure hyperbole. If the US economy is that fragile then the same could be said for every other economy in the world, especially ours. An economy that can adjust to 50, 60 and 70 dollar per barrel oil prices is anything but a house of cards. And, the last time I checked, the US deficit has been reduced by over 100 billion dollars this year. Also, if one compares deficits as a percentage to GDP, the current deficits are smaller then they were back in the 80's and 90's.

[B. Max]

The US economy is a house of cards, set for a really, really bad fall.

If it is, which it isn't, then it will fall right on our head. The economy of state of california for instance is equal to the entire country of france. Just to put things in perspective. Much has been made about the softwood lumber thing, and even that is only 3% of our entire trade with the US yet there are those who what to go off half cocked and risk an even more of that trade. I think we really have them over a barrel on this but everyone has played it the wrong way.

[Cartman]

Much has been made about the softwood lumber thing, and even that is only 3% of our entire trade with the US yet there are those who what to go off half cocked and risk an even more of that trade.

Then you are lucky this tough guy is not the Prime Minister huh?

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper says that as prime minister, he'd take a hardline position with the United States and refuse to bargain over softwood.

In an apparent shift from his conciliatory style in the past on Canada-U.S. relations, Harper said Wednesday that he would tell George W. Bush there are other markets for Canada's resources.

http://tinyurl.com/bap5j

I sure hope that this is not just regarded as another example of Liberal bias.

[LotusLandLunatic]

http://tinyurl.com/bap5j

So Harper is now also stomping his feet over softwood lumber, saying he will NOT bargain with the U.S. over softwood.

Tsk tsk tsk.

You know, the way I see it, if Saul Goldberg owned the Canadian forest and decided to give Mr. MacMillan a good deal on trees, all the Americans could do is offer Saul more money for his trees & a gurantee that they'll buy just as many trees as MacMillan is guaranteeing to buy and ... PRESTO ... Saul would, knowing he's got trees hanging out of his ears, switch buyers in a heartbeat.

"It's a dog eat dog world out there" would be Saul's answer to MacMillan.

Except that the American's probably couldn't guarantee Saul that they'll buy just as many trees ... so Saul's answer to the Americans could very well be "toughski shitski", and the Americans couldn't do anything about it.

Is that the message Harper wants to send to our greatest friends who are like family to us?

Saul would never do that to HIS family.

[Toro]

That may be true, but Canada is helluva lot better than France or Germany.

In today's NP David Frum talks about the French. About how they have created a category of 'intermittent' workers - actors for example (Michael Harding would love that) who draw benefits from the government when not at work, displaced factory workers who government classifies as 'disabled' so they can collect money, workers who are permitted to retire at age 55.

In the meantime Canada is seriously discussing extending the retirement age beyond 65.

I wouldn't call that better, let alone "a helluva lot better".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if you think having high unemployment, low economic growth, stagnating standards of living, and an impending pension crisis within the next few decades as good, then yes, I guess France and Germany are better off.

[Guest eureka]

You make the contrast between Europe and North America appear too rosy for America. The difference is a philosphical rather than economic view.

Europe has made a conscious political choice to keep its workers at higher income levels and to give generous benefits to those who do not have work. America has made the choice to have legions of underemployed and underpaid and to pay those who cannot fit subsistence benefits.

The answer comes somewhere between the two approaches. We need to get a little humanity and Europe needs to better employ its workforce.

[Montgomery Burns]

The US economy is a house of cards, set for a really, really bad fall.

If it is, which it isn't, then it will fall right on our head. The economy of state of california for instance is equal to the entire country of france. Just to put things in perspective. Much has been made about the softwood lumber thing, and even that is only 3% of our entire trade with the US yet there are those who what to go off half cocked and risk an even more of that trade. I think we really have them over a barrel on this but everyone has played it the wrong way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The tax-and-spend crowd has been predicting a "really, really bad fall" for 25 years now. When it does happen, say 500 years down the road, they will say, "See, I told you so!"

[Montgomery Burns]

Yep, instead we continue to over-tax and over-regulate our economy.

That may be true, but Canada is helluva lot better than France or Germany. Canada is more like the UK, and is - as the French would say - more so resembles the "Anglo-American" rather than the European social model.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tony Blair was smart enough not to dicker much with Margaret Thatcher's deregulations and tax reform.

I was very disappointed in PMPM siding with the radical NDP and using that $4.6 billion on social programs instead of tax cuts. The far left likes to rail about corporations, but they create something very beneficial to society; they create something called J-O-B-S.

Btw, do you know what Germany and France's maximum tax rates are? I saw an article a couple of months ago and I forget which country was which, but one country's highest tax rate kicked in at about $72,000 CDN, and the tax rate was 47%; the other country's highest tax rate kicked in at about $115,000 CDN and the tax rate was 58%!

And they wonder why they have a brain drain to the USA?!

[mcqueen625]

The fastest growing segment of Canadian society is our governments. Every time we turn around federal, provincial and municipal governments are adding bureaucracy, but few of those added employees actually do anything except administrative functions, such as produce reports that never see the light of day, and think up ways to reduce the numbers of people who actually do work within government.

We need to start slashing the size of governments, including federal, provincial, and municipal. Federally we need to start with the PM's Office and work our way downward, not start at the bottom and never reach the top. We need to cut duplication of services between the federal and provincial level. In order to maintain Canada-wide standards the cuts to duplication need to come from the provinces, otherwise we will wind up with different programs in each province as is presently the case. One set of bureaucracy instead of two or three is sufficient. Automatically this will eliminate the mini-empire building that has been going on in our provinces for years. For instance the federal government funds an Office of the Official Languages Commissioner, yet in a have-not province like New Brunswick, Bernard Lord set up a duplication of this service provincially in Fredericton, NB, even though the feds already operate this service for Canada's citizens with an office in Moncton, NB. Many other examples of duplication could be documented right across this country, and it is time to put a stop to it, no wonder are standard of living is declining, we are drowning in a sea of bureaucracy!

If duplication was eliminated imagine the savings to taxpayers, and imagine politicians being able to explain to taxpayers why tax cuts are not possible after such cuts were made. We have massive surpluses now, just imagine how big those surpluses would be if all of this duplication was eliminated.

[Montgomery Burns]

Canada is helluva lot better than France or Germany.

Even if this is true, isn't it how one is faring compared to the Jonses that counts?

I drive & shop in the U.S. regularly, I've got a NEXUS pass. And what I have found is that today just about everything in the under $100 category is cheaper there.

Even the damn Costco prices are lower in Washington State than here in BC! :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This a good example of why a high CDN dollar is not necessarily good. Mirror seemed to think that is was a "contest" to see who had the highest dollar between the US and Canada, but as Lotus stated (and I don't blame him/her; I'd do the same thing - one goes for the best price they can), you go to get the best deal wherever you can.

If the CDN dollar was at $0.75, Lotus likely would not slip across the border; the $4 he/she saves would be wiped out, or virtually wiped out. Ergo, Lotus would probably be spending his/her dough on a Canadian retailer, instead of a US retailer.

Just thought I'd point that out, even though I like a high CDN dollar because 3 of my suppliers (2 or which are major suppliers) are from the US...

[theloniusfleabag]

With regards to B.C having higher prices, and

The fastest growing segment of Canadian society is our governments. Every time we turn around federal, provincial and municipal governments are adding bureaucracy, but few of those added employees actually do anything except administrative functions, such as produce reports that never see the light of day, and think up ways to reduce the numbers of people who actually do work within government.

I think the quick (and best) fix would be to abolish unions. B.C. is a heavily 'unionized province', where seniority, instead of ability, is sacrosanct. A customer of mine travelled through there recently, and saw someone who recently awoke from a nap in his truck. He casually asked the guy, "Gee, it must be nice to get 'paid naps", and the reply he got was "Hey, I've put in 20 years here, they owe me".

Even if this is true, isn't it how one is faring compared to the Jonses that counts?

Explain that one to god...

[Guest eureka]

But the bureaucracy is not the astest growing segment of Canadian employment. I have given the figures on that a couple of times. It has not growm proportionately to the population growth.

It is so fashionable to attack government workers who are, in my experience, at least as hard working, and hard worked, as any in the Private sector. I even think that government workers are more productive than private since, at the field level, there is less time wasted on "office politics."

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear eureka,

I even think that government workers are more productive than private since,

I agree with your statement that many gov't workers are 'hard workers', as I know several. This statement, though, I disagree with. It is not because they are gov't employees, though, but because they are unionized employees.

I had, some time ago, applied for a job with a 'national railway company', which was a union job. They asked the strangest questions at the interview...for example, "What would you do if a fellow employee said "slow down, you are working too fast and making the rest of us look bad...." (followed by a multiple choice of: slow down, ignore them, rat on them...(in fact, a lot of the questions had the same choices for the answers)

A long-time friend of mine once had a job with the old ALCB back in the 80's. There was no work for him to do one day, so they put him in the bottle depot to give him some hours...the person he was working with told him several times, "Slow down, we have to make this last all day" and, of course they could not be fired for being 'slow', and were making, as union employees, on loan from another, higher paying department, more than double what a regular 'bottle sorter' would make.

[LotusLandLunatic]

Canada is helluva lot better than France or Germany.

Even damn Costco prices are lower in Washington State than here in BC! :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This a good example of why a high CDN dollar is not necessarily good. If the CDN dollar was at $0.75, Lotus likely would not slip across the border; the $4 he/she saves would be wiped out, or virtually wiped out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean Costco would lower the price of my Gatorade if the CDN dollar dropped?

Why the hell would they do that?

[LotusLandLunatic]

Even if this is true, isn't it how one is faring compared to the Jonses that counts?

Explain that one to god...

God knows it!

Or do you think it's just by accident that so many poor countries are bunched together, as are the rich ones?

[Montgomery Burns]

Canada is helluva lot better than France or Germany.

Even damn Costco prices are lower in Washington State than here in BC! :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This a good example of why a high CDN dollar is not necessarily good. If the CDN dollar was at $0.75, Lotus likely would not slip across the border; the $4 he/she saves would be wiped out, or virtually wiped out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean Costco would lower the price of my Gatorade if the CDN dollar dropped?

Why the hell would they do that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You said you pay $14.59 US (about $18 CDN) for a case of Gatorade. If the CDN dollar was lower, the exchange rate would be greater and you would pay more than $18 CDN; thus possibly convincing you to buy from a Canadian retailer.