Depressing summer for Martin Liberals

[Guest eureka]

You do not see that sort of thing hidden in Canada. Virtually every penny spent is accounted for. Or have you not noticed the name Sheilas Fraser in the news occasionally? Even the Provinces now account for money and Duplessis style vote buying is only a wet dream for politicians.

In America, a substantial proportion of expenditures is not accounted for in any way. It is well-dressed "Pork."

[Guest eureka]

I see no point in thinking about alternative ways of comparing tax burdens across countries. Tax burdens are only meaningfully analysed in terms of the return on investment - services and the cost of services. And, in whether taxation is progressive.

In the latter, there are countries that do better than Canada. In the former, too, as someone posted with reference to Finland. I would add Ireland to that.

[BHS]

I believe the thrust of your post was that pork barrel spending doesn't happen in Canada because we have a different system for passing legislation, and now your saying that we DO have pork barrel spending, but it's okay because Sheila Frazer can account for it all (even though she can't, and that's usually why we hear about her reports - the media do like to concentrate on the negatives).

So, why is the great and glorious gun registry system, that was initially to cost two million dollars, now hovering at around a billion? (I have a pet theory about this, but I'd just like to see what you have to say.)

[Guest eureka]

I have never even suggested that it does not happen in Canada. I have said that it cannot be done without someone finding out. Therefore, it is not a significant amount.

In Canada, all party committees discuss and approve government expenditures. There can be misallocation down the line, as with the substance of Gomery. But the money cannot be permanently hidden. Even with the secret fund of the Government (I will not say Liberal government since all governments have done it) the money is known if not the details.

In America, it is as I have already posted. I forget the suspected amounts in the last Appropriations Bill, but it ran into many millions of dollars over thousands of diversions: all approved by the Committee in the spirit of "give and take."

What the Gun Registry has to do with it, I find hard to imagine. The overrun there has been thoroughly hashed out in the media and at the water coolers. It is not hidden or favours given and returned.

[mirror]

The freedom day by the right wing fraser institute has been totally debunked and discredited. It's all based on garbage figures that they just pulled out of the air with no solid scientific evidence to back up their research.

The US has one of the sickest societies in the world and you want Canadians to folow that degerate society. Are you nuts? Try to do a little thinking for yourself instead of listening to fox news or whatever it is that you watch. SXorry but most Canadians aren't into the ME ME ME lifestyle you advocate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What then do you feel is a fair level of taxation? Do you have one? Or do you just favour 'high' taxes in general?

Uhhh, it is possible to form opinions on one's own without listening to Fox News.

No, I don't think I am nuts. I do think that blanket support of "high taxes" is pretty weak.

I would think it fair to say most Canadians wouldn't support the statement:

"It is essential that we have high taxes ."

But thanks for the blanket personal attacks without any justification.

How long until this 'forthcoming' National Childcare Program is enacted? Ken Dryden, Hall of Fame goalie, pretty weak as a minister so far.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is this obsession with material greed or possesssions. How many houses, cars, boats, money in the bank does one person need? Taxes are what fund our social services without which people would literally die on the streets. Is that what you want, as your ideas sure sounds like it. And cut the crap about my wanting to live off the system. I earn good money, I work damm hard for it, but I would never begrudge our duly elected governments taking their 50% to provide services and support to those less fortunate than myself.

This is what Canada needs:

GAI

[Riverwind]

This is what Canada needs:

GAI

Here is a wiki link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

Note the following:

No country in the world has ever implemented a full guaranteed minimum income system. Portugal is by far the closest, with a guaranteed minimum income a legally enshrined right for the entire population since 1997. However, the amount guaranteed is well below the poverty line and other programs such as the minimum wage are thus still in place. The system also forces participants to attend social integration sessions.

Portugal's experience demonstrates two things: 1) it is incredibly expensive; 2) providing a 'livable' minimum income would encourage many people to not work at all and thereby place an every increasing burden on the system.

No strings attached social welfare the worst kind of social welfare.

[mirror]

This is what Canada needs:

GAI

Here is a wiki link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

Note the following:

No country in the world has ever implemented a full guaranteed minimum income system. Portugal is by far the closest, with a guaranteed minimum income a legally enshrined right for the entire population since 1997. However, the amount guaranteed is well below the poverty line and other programs such as the minimum wage are thus still in place. The system also forces participants to attend social integration sessions.

Portugal's experience demonstrates two things: 1) it is incredibly expensive; 2) providing a 'livable' minimum income would encourage many people to not work at all and thereby place an every increasing burden on the system.

No strings attached social welfare the worst kind of social welfare.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're talking through your hat.

Take Finland for example. When you go on enemployment isurance it lasts until you are employed again, or you stay on EI for life. Believe it or not most people want to work. I am a lot more concerned about corporate executives ripping off their employee pension funds than I am about the very few people in society who are going to abuse a GAI. With the money we spend on government bureaucracies, which would be substantially reduced, we can easily afford a GAI at no additional cost to the taxpayers.

We need to shift our attention away from sick and degenerate societies like the US and do what we in Canada believe is best for Canadians and the rest of the people we share the planet with. Americans are brain dead. They think that we can destroy this planet and they will build a colony in outer space to replace planet earth. They are absolutely nuts, and the further Canada moves away from the US with their insane policies, the better off all Canadians will be. Parrish is so right with her outbursts!

[shoop]

Take Finland for example. When you go on enemployment isurance it lasts until you are employed again, or you stay on EI for life. Believe it or not most people want to work. I am a lot more concerned about corporate executives ripping off their employee pension funds than I am about the very few people in society who are going to abuse a GAI. With the money we spend on government bureaucracies, which would be substantially reduced, we can easily afford a GAI at no additional cost to the taxpayers.

We need to shift our attention away from sick and degenerate societies like the US and do what we in Canada believe is best for Canadians and the rest of the people we share the planet with. Americans are brain dead. They think that we can destroy this planet and they will build a colony in outer space to replace planet earth. They are absolutely nuts, and the further Canada moves away from the US with their insane policies, the better off all Canadians will be. Parrish is so right with her outbursts!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uhhh, a GAI would NEVER fly in Canada because most Canadians wouldn't think a system guaranteeing everyone a basic income, regardles of whether or not they work, is best for Canadians because of the fear of people scamming the system.

How exactly would a GAI scheme reduce government bureaucracy enough to magically pay for itself? Why don't you give a quote as to how much a GAI would cost along with the plans for your magical 'substantial reduction' in costs related to government bureaucracies.