I want to vote...

[BHS]

eureka:

I'm taking some time to go over your posting history. Very interesting so far. Hawk has done a nice job of supplying a preliminary rebuttal. I will have more to add later.

PS: your final comment, implying that Hawk and I are being unserious in discussing this topic, is ridiculous given your own lightweight contributions to the discussion so far.

[PocketRocket]

Well, if I can get back to the original topic question without offending anyone who is involved in the little bicker above.....

Referenda are a terrible way to decide such collective issues.  If a million people vote in a referendum, that doesn't mean the decision is a million times better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boy oh boy, you said a mouthful.

Robert A Heinlein pointed out this dichotomy in two statements. I'll paraphrase as best as I can recall them

"Autocracy is based on the assumption that one man is wiser than a million men"

"Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are wiser that one man"

"Who decides???"

I believe Heinlein was paraphrasing someone else in these comments, but I don't know who it was.

As a whole, I'd tend to agree with the first statement. People, as individuals, may be intelligent.

As a group, they become less so, and the bigger the group, the stupider it gets.

Anyone who wishes to argue this point would do well to first attend a large sporting event or concert or the like.

Increase the size of the crowd, and you lower the common intellectual denominator.

Additionally, the larger the group, the harder it is to reach any sort of concensus.

But my concern goes beyond either of these points.

We elect representatives to run the country. These reps are supposedly dedicated to doing this job, and spend the bulk of their working time doing so.

I do not know every issue that's going on within the hallowed halls of Parliament. I'm sure none of us do.

Nonetheless, given the chance to vote on each and every little item, people will do so.

But as a group, they will surely not vote wisely.

I don't recall the name of the philosopher who warned of "Bread and Circuses", which is what he claimed the general populace would bring about given a popular vote on all issues.

After many years in the entertainment industry, working with groups ranging from a few people up to crowds of 50,000 or more, I would tend to agree with his sentiment.

[crazymf]

Nonetheless, given the chance to vote on each and every little item, people will do so.

But as a group, they will surely not vote wisely.

BUT, a million individuals, in their own home, with a complete information package at their mousetip, oblivious to any other group influence, can make an effective informed educated decision, one million times.

And if you wanted to have your MLA or MP to vote for you, empower him to do so. If there's issues that you want to vote on yourself, do so. My point was that in the age of computers and fast information, this IS possible, if not probable.

[Guest eureka]

Nine hundred thoudand would not read the package. Another ninety thousand would not understand the issues and information. And another nine thousand would decide in accordance with their biases not on the merits.

[PocketRocket]

I find I have to agree in principle with EUREKA in this.

In my current job, I do tech support.

It's amazing how many people cannot be bothered to read something so fundamentally simple as how to set up an answering machine, or how to use the remote control for their tv set.

If people can't take five minutes to read a simple 2-page manual for something so simple, and would rather wait 10 minutes on the phone to have someone hold their hand and walk them through it, then how do you expect them to go through several pages of data to be able to make an informed decision on an important national topic???

[BHS]

Nine hundred thoudand would not read the package. Another ninety thousand would not understand the issues and information. And another nine thousand would decide in accordance with their biases not on the merits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my. I'm actually agreeing with you on something.

[I Miss Trudeau]

BUT, a million individuals, in their own home, with a complete information package at their mousetip, oblivious to any other group influence, can make an effective informed educated decision, one million times.

There is always going to be suspicion about the information package, and rightly so. Just look at all the accusations of media bias flying in all directions these days... imagine how much more severe that would be if official referendum information packages were released.

[crazymf]

SO THEN!!! Is this how a government operates too?

Are you guys assuming that a government of elected individuals, who formerly were our neighbors and part of the mere commoners walking among us, can competently and consistently make better and more informed decisions than us?

That's a scary thought. I mean it's a scary thought if they don't.

[Riverwind]

Are you guys assuming that a government of elected individuals, who formerly were our neighbors and part of the mere commoners walking among us, can competently and consistently make better and more informed decisions than us?

Yes, since these people are paid to research the issues and become better informed. That is the fundemental problem with gov't by referendum: most people don't have the time to become properly informed even if they have the ability. That is why paying a qualified individual to work full time on our behalf makes sense to make political discisions makes sense.

[crazymf]

Yes, since these people are paid to research the issues and become better informed. That is the fundemental problem with gov't by referendum: most people don't have the time to become properly informed even if they have the ability. That is why paying a qualified individual to work full time on our behalf makes sense to make political discisions makes sense.

I agree with you totally.

However, in Canada, as you know, we do not get to elect our leaders further up the chain than our local representative. So I have 2 scenarios;

1. I like my local guy, but not the party leader or the party line.

2. I like the leader, but have to vote for some schmuck to get him in.

In that sense, I like the American system.

My abstract idea was if I wanted to take my decision making power back on a subject I feel strongly about, and have a vested interest in, I could do that. On other nuts and bolts decisions in everyday Ottawa, let them do it.

Somehow and when, the whole idea of countries, government structure, and organisation may change. I believe it has started with the Euro currency.

I'm done.