Will Duceppe Succeed Laundry

[Guest eureka]

You could do with having your biases cleansed, Bakunin. Then, they may not get in the way of truth.

You know damned well that I have never posted anything even close to what you allege. It is an egregious lie. Imdeed, I have posted the opposite and talked of French across Canada.

Nothing else that you say is even remotely connected to "rationality." I have given you all the historical, legal, and moral reasons why Quebec has no claim to Sovereignty: why it is a dual language province where the English language has been suppressed by the threat of violence - and actual violence ( the St. Leonard riots amongst other).

Your political culture is a blot on Canada and on human instincts. In my involvement, I could feed you horror stories until your mind would be numbed. I know of the excesses of the language supremacists as few in Canada do. The PQ is racist to the core and xenophobic with it.

Parizeau expressed the feelings of all the hardliners as showed when Landry lost control of his public persona.

The rest of the followers are simply ignorant and educated to believe it is "only normal" that French should be superior - to use the favourite expression of Claude Ryan, echoed by the Sovereigntists.

And, in both referendums, the illegal manoeuvres were all on the Seoaratist side. Thousands of "No" voters were intimidated and thousands of their ballots were rejected.

In 1980, my organization informed the Quebec and Canadian governments that we had no intention of serving under the "No" umbrella. As far as we were concerned, the choice offered by Ryan was no better than that with the PQ. We did not spend money, but we scared the hell out of Levesque and destroyed his credibility in the US amongst many other things.

[Bakunin]

You know damned well that I have never posted anything even close to what you allege. It is an egregious lie. Imdeed, I have posted the opposite and talked of French across Canada

You often said that quebec should have been crushed while the conquest, that we should happy about just to exist...

Nothing else that you say is even remotely connected to "rationality." I have given you all the historical, legal, and moral reasons why Quebec has no claim to Sovereignty: why it is a dual language province where the English language has been suppressed by the threat of violence - and actual violence ( the St. Leonard riots amongst other).

Your political culture is a blot on Canada and on human instincts. In my involvement, I could feed you horror stories until your mind would be numbed. I know of the excesses of the language supremacists as few in Canada do.

Your reason where always pathetic... we all know that quebec is the result of the conquest of new france... You where always unable to provide valid quote, and when i was showing you some wheither it was britsh, american or else, you where claiming it was separatist bullshit...

The PQ is racist to the core and xenophobic with it.

I know its what you think...

Parizeau expressed the feelings of all the hardliners as showed when Landry lost control of his public persona.

considering he got 76% of the vote and that pauline marois and his friend voted against landry, those hard liner were a small minority.

The rest of the followers are simply ignorant and educated to believe it is "only normal"  that French should be superior - to use the favourite expression of Claude Ryan, echoed by the Sovereigntists.

yeah right, rene levesque, lucien bouchard, pierre marc johnson, bernard landry, gille duceppe, and a vast majority of the party are all ignorent people ? no they are rational people just like a canadian can be rational when he say he don't want canada to be part of usa.

And, in both referendums, the illegal manoeuvres were all on the Seoaratist side. Thousands of "No" voters were intimidated and thousands of their ballots were rejected.

You know the "no" side cheated, it has been proved... they used 10 time more money than the yes side... and they gave citizenship night and day during the month fo the referendum... they gave so much citizenship this month that it was bigger than all the other month combined...

In 1980, my organization informed the Quebec and Canadian governments that we had no intention of serving under the "No" umbrella. As far as we were concerned, the choice offered by Ryan was no better than that with the PQ. We did not spend money, but we scared the hell out of Levesque and destroyed his credibility in the US amongst many other things.

Maybe its time you tell us what was your organization what you did and etc...?

[Guest eureka]

You often said that quebec should have been crushed while the conquest, that we should happy about just to exist...

Show me one instance where I said that or admit you are lying.

Your reason where always pathetic... we all know that quebec is the result of the conquest of new france... You where always unable to provide valid quote, and when i was showing you some wheither it was britsh, american or else, you where claiming it was separatist bullshit...

I gave you history not quotes. I am not interested in the "quotes" of some wild-eyed Sovereigntist or the counterpart to those. I deal in reality and justice.

considering he got 76% of the vote and that pauline marois and his friend voted against landry, those hard liner were a small minority.

What does that have to do with Landry's ethnic outburst after the 1995 referendum.

yeah right, rene levesque, lucien bouchard, pierre marc johnson, bernard landry, gille duceppe, and a vast majority of the party are all ignorent people ?

They are the leaders not the followers. As such, they are to blame for the ignorance of their followers.

And, in both referendums, the illegal manoeuvres were all on the Seoaratist side. Thousands of "No" voters were intimidated and thousands of their ballots were rejected.

You know the "no" side cheated, it has been proved... they used 10 time more money than the yes side... and they gave citizenship night and day during the month fo the referendum... they gave so much citizenship this month that it was bigger than all the other month combined...

Perhaps the results of inquiries into the shenanigans of the referendums are not reported in Quebec. There would be good reason to keep them under wraps, would there not? It is well known in the rest of Canada.

As to what the organisation I belonged to did, let me just give you one example.

When Levesque went to Washington to address approximately 1000 American journalists at the National Press Club: to explain the Sovereignty case and the victimhood of Quebec as well as the "civilized" nature of the language laws, we were there before him.

Every journalist had a Press Kit prepared by us - and including some of my writings - and all questions to Levesque were taken from our information. Levesque was dismissed courteously but with the certain knowledge of the contempt of Americans.

On his journey home, he was interviewed by Macdonald of the Macdonald and Lehrer report for PBS. Macdonald had our press kit sitting in front of him to Levesque's discomfit. Levesque returned home with his tail between his legs.

For the rest, there were a myriad things that we did: and many things that I did independently of the Movement. They are not yours to know.

Suffice it to say that my children were both legally registered in English schools but were, I think, the only children in those schools who did not have to carry little Green Cards to prove they had permission to attend English school. You could ask Jacques-Yvan Morin the reason of that.

[Bakunin]

Eureka, i won't reply cause we both know this discussion is going nowhere "we already played in that movie ". you show your version of the history i show mine and thats it. Id like to quote you where you said we should be just be happy to exist but it was on the older forum wich seems to be erased, if i remember well its a thread that ended in a history discussion and you where talking about how the english were good with us, too good and etc...

As for your organization, what was it called ? equality party ? alliance quebec ? rcmp ?

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Ok here is a video of an interview with André boisclair wich i hope will be quebec next prime minister (its in french).

its the 17 august 2004, when he leave the pq to go finish his well i don't know how its called in english, its "maitrise" wich is after a bachaloreat.

http://www.radio-canada.ca/Medianet/RDI2/A...408172100_1.asx

[Guest eureka]

You don't get away that easily. Your accusation or misquotation, whichever it is, is contemptible if meant.

I will be charitable, though, and put it down to a struggle with your second language.

BTW, Alliance Quebec was the enemy in those days. It was an organisation funded by the federal government to keep the lid on "Anglophone" response to the language laws. It was almost exclusively made up of professionals and the like who could comfortably coexist with the laws.

It became what it is today when people I knew gained control. People like Bill Johnston.

You have said nothing yet to refute my claims that Quebec was a dual language community. You have said nothing to deny that French was granted equality with English at Confederation. You have said nothing to deny that the English were a substantial proportion of the Quebec population until they left following the language laws.

You have avoided commenting on the condemnation by the UN Human Rights Commission or its conclusion that the English of Quebec are not a national minority. You have not commented on my claim that this is all about creating a country out of a portion of Canada's territory where no nation now exists. In doing that, the Sovereigntists will attain the legal status of a majority and consummate their ethnic dream of a superior culture.

Superior in what way, though!

[Bakunin]

Ok a fast answer even if i know this is going nowhere.

You don't get away that easily. Your accusation or misquotation, whichever it is, is contemptible if meant.

Well whatever, ill take your word if you say now that the quebecker has their place and right in this country im happy to hear it ! its possible i misinterpreted what you wrote in the past. You just seems to be such angry at the french all the time

I will be charitable, though, and put it down to a struggle with your second language.

BTW, Alliance Quebec was the enemy in those days. It was an organisation funded by the federal government to keep the lid on "Anglophone" response to the language laws. It was almost exclusively made up of professionals and the like who could comfortably coexist with the laws.

It became what it is today when people I knew gained control. People like Bill Johnston.

so what was the name of your organization.

You have said nothing yet to refute my claims that Quebec was a dual language community. You have said nothing to deny that French was granted equality with English at Confederation. You have said nothing to deny that the English were a substantial proportion of the Quebec population until they left following the language laws.

In my view, i see "New france" getting conquered by the american british, then they called it the province of quebec. from that "what is left of new france = quebec". Then the british installed a regime and english & american business mens came. At that point quebec stopped to grow or at least to get french immigrant. It became a society isolated from the rest of the world. Then we got many english immigrant the goal being to assimilate the province. What i think you clame is that there where english people on (quebec 1760's teritorry) before and while it was called "new france" hmm i don't know about that but first its not on the map, second i wonder how they could have lived side by side and with the french and organised themselve, third they definatly did not have a role in the new france administration. In other word what i see is a conquered society disconnected from the world for many years and an administration that failed to asimilate them either because they where too much different or because the french where not educated enough to learn english well.

That small society under the church power slowly started to build a province with duplessis and american businessman and when he died evrything exploded, the french population started to open themselve to the rest of the world and builded a nation. Wheither you like it or not, you must admit that we builded a nation with his own culture and way of living different from the rest of canada. Unfortunatly, its quite clear that when we decided to build a nation and a culture and wanted it to be structurate, the english community slowly lost the politic, economic and cultural control. I perfectly understand them to vote "no" for a referendum because they are canadian. We surely understand that they are more canadian than quebecker.This is partly why im a confederalist, i want evryone to be happy.

You have avoided commenting on the condemnation by the UN Human Rights Commission or its conclusion that the English of Quebec are not a national minority.

They aren't, but quebec as the spirit of a nation. I beleive we can be part of 2 nations. just like the amerindian for sample.

You have not commented on my claim that this is all about creating a country out of a portion of Canada's territory where no nation now exists. In doing that, the Sovereigntists will attain the legal status of a majority and consummate their ethnic dream of a superior culture.

Superior in what way, though!

Not a superior culture, just a culture like the other and a nation like the other. In my vision, canada was meant to be a confederation of british colony. not a consolidation and fusion. So starting from that are the province a federal creature ? or the federal a provinces(old colony) creature ? it seems to have changed from time to time and i guess thats why we need either to define it clearly in order to save canada or to let a referendum decide it.