Message for My French Candians Friends

[takeanumber]

Enough of the Ontario imperialism.

Hyperbole.

That province only has 1/3 of the seats.

How are they possibily repressing anybody? By being generous with their money? By voting for parties which share their social values?

They have the right to vote for whoever they want...as does any other region. In so doing, they're hardly repressing anybody...they don't have the ability to do so.

[I miss Reagan]

"Enough of the Ontario imperialism."

Hyperbole.

Ya maybe, what's a more accurate word... hegemony perhaps?

How are they possibily repressing anybody? By being generous with their money? By voting for parties which share their social values?

They have the right to vote for whoever they want...as does any other region. In so doing, they're hardly repressing anybody...they don't have the ability to do so.

We've discussed this quite a bit on this forum. I think most would agree that our system is not truly democratic. Some regions have a disportionate amount of power compared to others. Ontario, specifically the GTA, is one of those regions.

And I would change "being generous with their money" to "being generous with other's money.

[takeanumber]

Quebec, Saskatchewan, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, PEI, New Brunswick, and Manitoba are all overrepresented, as they benefit from the Senatorial and 1984 Clauses.

Alberta, Ontario, and especially B.C., are all underrepresented. (BC is the most screwed.)

Moreover, rural areas are overrepresented intra-provincially compared to urban areas.

On balance, the GTA is under-represented.

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If you use the Calgary school logic that voting should be proportional to net contribution in dollar terms to confederation, the GTA is severely under-represented.

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It's URBAN English Canada's money that is being the most abused. Billions of dollars flood out to the rural parts (and EI is the greatest abuse) and very little flows back. There's so little money for infrastructure in the urban areas.

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Ontario only has a 1/3 of the seats and a little under 1/3 of the population. Quebec has a 1/4 of the seats and under 1/4 of the population. It's hardly a hegemony.

The true hegemony is in Alberta, where urban areas make up 60% of the population, but get 49% of the seats.

[Bakunin]

eureka:

I agree with you, Bakunin. Perhaps you could explain, though, wht Quebeckers are so enraged and willing to vote for Duceppe et al.

Recognising that is a few bad apples, why is there no sense of proportion in Quebec?

First cause they think jean chretien was behind it, that martin knew but didnt participate in it. The coverage of the gomery comission is very good too, evry day the tv news, the newspaper and their is 1 special emission wich explain who was at the comission what they said and analyst explain it. Its clear its not all the liberal party involved, but many ppl participate in it, their are 3 group, the one wich explain evrything and know that what they did was stupid (the good), one group that deny evrything, doesn't cooperate and have major memory issue( the bad). Then the liberal that were not involved in it and are suffering from it.

2nd there is a tradition in quebec, we never keep the same government for more than 2 elections (~ 8 years), in other word we want something new but just like ontario, we are not ready to elect harper so i guess thats why ppl vote for the bloc, to get rid of the liberal, to punish them. And something that we should point out is that their is a psychological bar at 50% that the bloc seems to be unable to go behond that. But the liberal vote still suffer because ppl that dont want to vote for the bloc but are frustrated about the liberal behaviour just won't go vote, i wouldn't be surprised if the particiaption to the election in quebec fall a bit.

[Bakunin]

Quebec, Saskatchewan, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, PEI, New Brunswick, and Manitoba are all overrepresented, as they benefit from the Senatorial and 1984 Clauses.

Alberta, Ontario, and especially B.C., are all underrepresented. (BC is the most screwed.)

Moreover, rural areas are overrepresented intra-provincially compared to urban areas.

On balance, the GTA is under-represented.

----------

If you use the Calgary school logic that voting should be proportional to net contribution in dollar terms to confederation, the GTA is severely under-represented.

----------

It's URBAN English Canada's money that is being the most abused. Billions of dollars flood out to the rural parts (and EI is the greatest abuse) and very little flows back. There's so little money for infrastructure in the urban areas.

----------

Ontario only has a 1/3 of the seats and a little under 1/3 of the population. Quebec has a 1/4 of the seats and under 1/4 of the population. It's hardly a hegemony.

The true hegemony is in Alberta, where urban areas make up 60% of the population, but get 49% of the seats.

I think that this is the big problem, the representation is too much screwed up.

But not only for some region, for all of them here is my explanation: The maritime and ontario and a few quebeckers has a Liberal vision of this country, The majority in quebec has a social democrat vision of it, the west has a conservative vision of it and BC has his own vision of it. In overall, the liberal version of the country win even if in some part of the country their vision doesnt fit. lets just take the west, how much liberal mp are from their ? about 3 wich are prolly not well representative of the west, it is such ridiculous, its easyer to say they have close to no influence in this government. If we want evryone to be well represented we need sectorial government, the provincial government could do the job. What i mean is that we should look at another system more like a confederation than a federation, where evry province has their personality. This mean we should also get rid of the equalisation transfer, the federal would collect no more taxes so no more transfer needed, the poorer province just have to collect more taxes and cut in social programs. This also mean that the provinces would have the entire responsibility over their citizen and couldnt blame any other government if they fail in something.

I know this kind of vision would be quite sad for the maritime ;( but once they get to exploit oil, i guess it will help them.

[I miss Reagan]

I agree. We are too diverse to work together effectively. However, I would support a little bit of aid to the have not regions. That being said I think taking them of total life support would inspire some ingenuity and motivation. After all, necessity is the mother of all inventions. Good post Bak.

[Bakunin]

I agree.  We are too diverse to work together effectively.  However, I would support a little bit of aid to the have not regions.  That being said I think taking them of total life support would inspire some ingenuity and motivation.  After all, necessity is the mother of all inventions.  Good post Bak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

felix leclerc : "La meilleure façon de tuer un homme c'est de le payer à ne rien faire. "

[Guest eureka]

That is the vision of a Social Democratic society!

[Bakunin]

That is the vision of a Social Democratic society!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it often end up like that yeah

Id say, while social democrat represent hope of a better futur world, the neo-liberalism or the consertative represent the rationality of the present world.

[bigdude]

Such a sad thread.

It reminds me of Yugoslavia.

Let's get a grip and remember that Alberta and Quebec have issues, and although I don't agree with them, they have a right to whine and moan.

As for Ontario's power: over 1/3 of the country lives in Ontario.  Quebec and Alberta are minorities.  I find it especially hipocritical how Alberta has 3 million people, but demand the same amoutn of representation as a province that has 8 million -- but at the same time, tramples on minority rights.

As for Quebec, they represent under 1/4 of the population, and are overrepresented in parliament, and are very represented in Ottawa.

Ontario + Atlantic Canada + Sask. + Manitoba + BC = majority of Canada.

And they don't whine too much.

So, let's just remind ourselves that most of Canada is great. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do mean most? All of Canada is great except for Alberta!

[bigdude]

I truly hope the Liberals win this next election, because then it will give the seperatist movements in both Western Canada and Quebec the boost they need to leave the tyranny of Ontario Liberalism Sooner or later Ontario is going to have to realize that the country shouldn't revolve around their every whim, and if it takes seperation to make that so then so be it.. it is by their own hand =)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree it is about time Ontario had its ass kicked.

I mean talk about ripping the rest of the outlying provinces, first nations, etc., off.

But it isn't just Ontario.

Ontario, Quebec, what's the difference?

The reality is that Quebec and Ontario have been ripping off the rest of the country bigtime since 1867, the beginning of Confederation!

[Guest eureka]

So Social Democracy is hope and "neo-liberalism" is "abandon all hope ye who enter here."

[Bakunin]

So Social Democracy is hope and "neo-liberalism" is "abandon all hope ye who enter here."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It represent the hope of a less boring and cruel world than the neo-liberalism world. In other word its less effective but more humanist. Thats why IMO, we should altern between those 2 type of government because its not a good idea financially to stay with a Social democratic vision for too long without taking breaks