10 Criticisms of Israel

[Winterhaze13]

I will list 10 common criticisms of the Israeli state and its policies. My intent behind this thread is to get at the major concerns about the middle east conflicts and hope to arrive at a grey area of compromise. Note: the criticisms will be taken from New York Times Bestseller The Case For Israel by Alan Dershowitz, which I am currently reading.

On whether I recommend this book, it is blatant Pro-Israeli propanganda and completely one-sided. So, I suggest pro-Israelis read it and pro-Palestinians avoid it. If you are on the fence read The Case for Israel but read a Pro-Palestinian book afterwards. So, here are the criticisms:

1. Israel is a Colonial, Imperialist state.

2. European Jews displaced Palestinians.

3. The Zionist movement was a plot to colonize all of Palestine.

4. The Balfour Declaration was not international law.

5. The Israelis are unwilling to share Palestine.

6. The Jews have exploited the memory of the Holocaust to garner sympathy for Israel.

7. The U.N. 1947 partition of Palestine was unfair to the Palestinians.

8. Israel created the Palestinian refugee crisis.

9. The Israeli occupation is unjustified.

10. Israel is ONE of the prime human rights violators in the world.

Note: I will act as a third party in this thread by only attempting to provoke discussion. Also, let's keep this discussion civilized please.

Source: Alan Dershowitz. The Case for Israel. Hoboken, New Jersey: John Wiley and Sons inc., 2003)

[The Terrible Sweal]

1. Israel is a Colonial, Imperialist state.

Jargon.

2. European Jews displaced Palestinians.

Partial truth.

3. The Zionist movement was a plot to colonize all of Palestine.

Over-inclusive.

4. The Balfour Declaration was not international law.

Arguable.

5. The Israelis are unwilling to share Palestine.

Which Israelis?

6. The Jews have exploited the memory of the Holocaust to garner sympathy for Israel.

I woudn't agree with the characterization: 'exploited'.

7. The U.N. 1947 partition of Palestine was unfair to the Palestinians.

Agreed.

8. Israel created the Palestinian refugee crisis.

Well, they contributed and perpetuated at least.

9. The Israeli occupation is unjustified.

It is illegal.

10. Israel is ONE of the prime human rights violators in the world.

What percentile, by what criteria. That's a very ... flexible proposition.

[Winterhaze13]

Dershowitz is very cynical, his book is completely one-sided and he ignores evidence that supports the Palestinian's cause. Many of his arguments are very thin and he lists about every single crime against the Israeli people but almost none on Palestinians.

He often presents his argument really early in the chapter and then rambles on for pages on crimes against the Jews that often don't have any relevance to his arguments. Am I suppose to believe that the Palestinians have a monopoly on violence in the region. In addition he tries to discredit Noam Chomsky, the most well-known and respected political thinker in the world.

Some of his arguments are so weak. I expect more from a prominant lawyer. In the section on Israeli's human rights record, he tries to justify it by saying that: Well, umm, Arab countries do it too. If I wrote that on a Political Science essay I would get a D. That does not justify Human rights violations nor does it give them a blank check.

Worst yet, he tries to pin the holocaust on the Palestinians by claiming that they had a moral obligation to accept Jews running away from Europe. The truth is that the entire western world is quilty of this. That's why the west recognized Israel because they didn't want Jewish people to come to their country. Canada and the United States turned away ships of Jews that were trying to escape and sent them back to Europe to die in camps. If we really want to prosecute everyone who is partly responsible for the holocaust then we can even blame German Jews who voted for the Nazis. But don't pin it on the Palestinians who are far less responsible than most people.

[Black Dog]

What, you were expecting balance from Dershowitz? This is a guy after all, who believes in torture and who has been accussed of plagarizing parts of "The Case for Israel".

[Winterhaze13]

What, you were expecting balance from Dershowitz? This is a guy after all, who believes in torture and who has been accussed of plagarizing parts of "The Case for Israel".

That's right. See: http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn09262003.html

[Winterhaze13]

Some more views on the Middle East situation:

Israeli People's Most Common Mistakes By Gilad Atzmon

The most common mistakes made by Israelis are as follows:

1. To fail to realize that there is no essential difference between Tel Aviv

and a Jewish settlement in the West Bank.

2. To believe that the creation of the state of Israel was an outcome of the

Holocaust.

3. To regard themselves as innocent people and thus as victims of the

Israeli­Palestinian conflict.

4. To believe that they live in a democracy and therefore that their

atrocities are legitimate.

5. To be convinced that they live in an open society which enjoys political

and ideological diversity.

6. To believe that the ghetto is behind them.

7. To be convinced that the 'Jewish state' is a legitimate concept.

8. To think that Israel is a shelter for the entire Jewish people and the

best answer to anti-Semitism.

9. To regard themselves as humanists.

10. To be sure that Israel is immortal.

For more information see: http://www.gilad.co.uk/mistakes.html

[paranoid joe]

1. Israel is a Colonial, Imperialist state.

all of its 'colonies' were aquired from wars that were started by Israel arabic neighbors. they were either given back, are going to be given back, or will be forced into the hands of the palestinians as they wont take it unless it comes with the rest of israel.

2. European Jews displaced Palestinians.

i agree, it is partially true, though most of them left when israel was created

3. The Zionist movement was a plot to colonize all of Palestine.

well of course, before the zionists came it was a wasteland, with prehaps 100000 bedouins, the population boomed with their effort. now the zionist seek only to control what is rightfully theirs, i.e. what was given to them in 1948 by the un.

4. The Balfour Declaration was not international law.

hmm i cant say it was.

5. The Israelis are unwilling to share Palestine.

1. palestine is jordan and israel, get the facts straight.

2.actually if the palestinians dont LET them share it after the wall is built (wink wink) they will be forcefully granted their 'wish'.

6. The Jews have exploited the memory of the Holocaust to garner sympathy for Israel.

actually w/out the holocaust there probably wouldnt be a state of israel. but other than that the only way they have done that is make excessive numbers of charities out of it .

7. The U.N. 1947 partition of Palestine was unfair to the Palestinians.

yes it was

8. Israel created the Palestinian refugee crisis.

true but whenever a large amount of people move to a new area, they often forcibly remove whoever happens to be there. i vote they just settle down in the west bank or one of the other countries in the area.

9. The Israeli occupation is unjustified.

yes it is but it cant be stopped until there is some peace and negotiations.

10. Israel is ONE of the prime human rights violators in the world.

define 'human rights violator'

[wodderwing]

I apologize if this message is off topic - I am trying to give a broad group

of people a chance to participate.

I'm a student doing a short internet survey (5 minutes) and I would

appreciate if you could help me by filling it out. The survey is about

foreign policy issues - how people form opinions about foreign policy

crises. It is only a few questions and will take about 5 minutes to

complete. Participation is completely voluntary and you can stop at any

time. As well, your participation is anonymous and you will never be asked

to provide your name. Pleasenote that you must be over 18 to participate in

this survey.

If you would like to participate, please go to the following link:

http://www.sitemaker.umich.edu/socpolsurveys

Thank you for your help,

Chris Ebert

University of Michigan

Ann Arbor, MI