Political use of Tragedy

[The Terrible Sweal]

Not yet resting in their graves, the four dead mounties have been appropriated for the political purposes of anti-marijuana fanatics.

(Even though there was no 'grow-op', only a few plants kicking around.)

I suppose we should expect this kind of low opportunism from the sleazy likes of Tory MP Randy White. But I have to say I'm sickened by RCMP cmmissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli being so quick to flog his agenda in the face of this tragedy.

[PocketRocket]

SWEAL: You seem to be pretty savvy. I've read some very intelligent posts from you.

So, does it really come as any surprise to you that ANY political party will use ANY bit of news which they can spin to serve their own agenda???

The bigger the news, the bigger the spin. It's called politics.

As an FYI, there are also some pro-pot groups already using this incident in an attempt to further their agenda.

It goes both ways.

That being said, I don't have to like it. And I don't. :angry:

[Argus]

Not yet resting in their graves, the four dead mounties have been appropriated for the political purposes of anti-marijuana fanatics.

(Even though there was no 'grow-op', only a few plants kicking around.)

I suppose we should expect this kind of low opportunism from the sleazy likes of Tory MP Randy White.  But I have to say I'm sickened by RCMP cmmissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli being so quick to flog his agenda in the face of this tragedy.

I've noticed an increasing inability on the part of those people on the left side of the political divide to accept that there can be any moral or principaled reason for any beliefs held by those on the right side. It's a kind of inbred arrogance which assumes that since their belief is incapable of being wrong anyone taking a contrary stand must somehow be operating out of political expediency or moral deficiency.

A lot of people sincerely believe that those who grow, sell and use illegal narcotics are criminals who damage society. To blithely state this crime had little to do with marijuana is disengenuous, to say the least. According to the papers there were "hundreds" of marijuana plants there.

As for using this tragedy to push their anti-drug agenda, well, justwhen was the last time anyone on your side of the divide failed to capitalise on violence or threats towards gays to push your homosexual agenda, or spousal violence against women (you ignore spousal violence comitted by women) to push your feminist agenda, or mishaps or mistakes commited by the Americans to push your anti-American agenda?

It is perfectly understandable to point out the violence underlaying drug trafficing and growth and call for stiffer penalties. It is perfectly acceptable to point out that decriminalizing use of illegal narcotics will increase their use, and thus lead to more profits and more violence from the growers.

[PocketRocket]

A lot of people sincerely believe that those who grow, sell and use illegal narcotics are criminals who damage society. To blithely state this crime had little to do with marijuana is disengenuous, to say the least. According to the papers there were "hundreds" of marijuana plants there.

The initial reports were "grow-op". However, 2 news reports I heard yesterday stated that the whole episode began with a bailiff who went to the farm to collect a truck. The perpetrator had defaulted on his payments and the vehicle was being repossessed.

While he was there, the bailiff saw parts from several new trucks, which had been chopped up, presumably for sale.

The perp then released guard dogs, who chased the bailiff off the property. The bailiff then called the police, and waited for them.

It went on to say that the plants were only discovered after the fact, and that there were only about 20 "mature" pot plants.

So, it is more likely that this was a "chop-shop" operation, wherein stolen vehicles are cut up, and the parts are sold at a high profit. This is a lucrative business, although highly illegal.

Add all this to the fact that the perpetrator had a long history of violence, a fascination with guns, and several past instances of confrontations with the police, and the marijuana slant becomes nearly, if not completely, irrelevant.

News sources are always quick to post "Drug crime" stories. It is sensationalism, which sells a lot more papers than "Auto-theft-ring" stories.

We'll see how this develops in the coming days.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Not yet resting in their graves, the four dead mounties have been appropriated for the political purposes of anti-marijuana fanatics.

(Even though there was no 'grow-op', only a few plants kicking around.)

I suppose we should expect this kind of low opportunism from the sleazy likes of Tory MP Randy White.  But I have to say I'm sickened by RCMP cmmissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli being so quick to flog his agenda in the face of this tragedy.

... A lot of people sincerely believe that those who grow, sell and use illegal narcotics are criminals who damage society. To blithely state this crime had little to do with marijuana is disengenuous, to say the least.

Whatever some people may think about drugs, it's disingenuous to launch a fresh crusade against marijuana just because a criminal lunatic happened to have marijuana on his land. Did he have a bottle of vodka too, maybe? Better ban alcohol then.

The police went there to seize property. They waited there for auto theft investigators. The marijuana investigators had already left.

According to the papers there were "hundreds" of marijuana plants there.

Well, not the reports I've heard.

As for using this tragedy to push their anti-drug agenda, well, justwhen was the last time anyone on your side of the divide failed to capitalise ...

What is 'my side' of 'the divide'? In fact, I raised the same complaint when feminist advocates appropriated the Montreal tragedy all those years ago. It seems that you are trying to yet further politicize my simple humane reaction against using tragedey politically.

It is perfectly understandable to point out the violence underlaying drug trafficing and growth and call for stiffer penalties.

It is not perfectly understandable to make it the centrepeice of a tragedy which factually had little to do with it. That would, as I said, be sleazy politics.

[Trial-and-Error]

Ya see, Argus, you went 'n done what you shouldn'tve--you tried to malign the left--and that in my books is a no-no. So belly up to the screen and let me give you my take on the right-wingers.

As you kind've alluded to yourself--albeit unwittingly, the right is comprised of basically three groups of people with some overlap. They are: Those who are too lazy, too gullible, too ignorant or too brain-dead to resist the propaganda emanating from mainstream media; those from the radical religious right; and those who have much to gain personally by decisions made by right-wing administrations.

Except for the last group, subscribers to the political right rarely if ever practice common sense; that is they don't weigh what they are being told with what the realities are. They simply cannot connect the dots. Now I know this is harsh but I haven't met a flaming right-winger yet that I like much less trust.

But I do marvel though at the patience of some of the thought provoking types on this board--of note, of course--the left-wingers. Ever the optimists, they keep hammering away at the right hoping that perhaps THIS is the day that reason will prevail. No it won't. That's why Junior's administration is able to rule. He doesn't dabble in reason; he puts all his money on sheer propaganda--the thoughtfood of fools. And guess what. It works. He doesn't have to bring everyone on board with his assinine and dangerous policies, he just needs to baffle the brains of a few more than the Dems. Remember, the Pubs and the Dems are simply opposite sides of the SAME coin, which generally means the latter is able to make the medicine go down easier.

War on Drugs - The Sweal is dead on. The right (and to a certain extent the left) want to use the tragedy to step away from the decriminalization of weed and jack up prison sentences for those in the grow-op "business." Huh?

Besides being opportunistic, the right is reacting illogically to the killing of four Mounties.

This is about murder not marijuana. What I would want to know is how did one guy manage to snuff out the lives of four supposedly well trained police officers, albeit rookies? Who at RCMP H.Q.'s is responsible for choreographing this operation? Were the four mounties near one another when shot? If so, why? If they were not together, why when the first shot was fired did they not retreat and call for back-up? Before going in after this guy, was there any reconnaissance? I mean, I find the whole thing quite bizarre.

So I ask, why would increased prison sentences prevent a similar event from happening in the futurte? That's rhetorical by the way.

Moreover, if you think marijuana played a role in all of this, you should be looking at supporting the legalizing not only of marijuana but of all drugs. Never mind the moralizizing. Think pragmatic.

Here, try this as a stepping off point. It calls for a bit of reading but you might find it interesting.

The real goods on drugs

and this from Noam Chomsky U.S. Role in Drug War

P.S. By the way I don't think there's much of a difference between the Liberals (the "so-called" left) and the Conservatives (most assuredly the right). The Liberals for me are simply the lesser of two evils. I don't see much honesty and public trust being practiced by government. Hell I don't see any. But I relentlessly attack Bush simply because he has the most resources to do egregious harm--as he has proven.

[Digby]

Radical religous right to a leftist would be any body that even reads a bible and accepts any thing in it as truth.

Alot of the people on the left now Days don't even know themselves . Some have been Stoned sence about 1970 . I met a few that told me they been stoned sence they was 17 every day of their lives they smoke a joint first thing in the morning and continue all day long.

I met a guy in his 30s said he could not remember not being stoned .

So other then the stoners .The left has Homosexuals, Organised Crime ,Feminist , transvestites, Buddist . And most modern day crooks . About every body thats got a beef with something written in the bible goes left .

[theloniusfleabag]

So other then the stoners .The left has Homosexuals, Organised Crime ,Feminist , transvestites, Buddist . And most modern day crooks . About every body thats got a beef with something written in the bible goes left .

I heard that one of the first things to 'go' with pot smokers is syntax, spelling and grammar. They often ramble on about vaguely connected ideas, then lose that train of thought and quickly start mumbling about something else.

[PocketRocket]

THELONIUS:

LOL. It made me chuckle.

But the fact that DIGBY'S grammatical prowess is not up to that of some others on this board should not be used as a shot against him. I often disagree with his points, but he does present them in a respectful manner.

I would far rather sit down beside a gentleman I disagree with, than a cad whose opinions coincide with my own.

[Digby]

I guess I got fed up with School because of all the educated brainwashed fools coming out of school .

So I Quit going to school so I could retain some wisdom .

I guess my spelling and grammer has paid for it.

Id go back to school to learn to spell ,but im scared they would make a fool out of me .

So i'll just finish my life in Grammer error land. Or start useing a dictionary .

[Black Dog]

It is perfectly acceptable to point out that decriminalizing use of illegal narcotics will increase their use, and thus lead to more profits and more violence from the growers.

That's why the half -assed measure of decriminalization is inadequate. Marijuana should be fully legalized and regulated, thus removing organized crime from the equation.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear PocketRocket,

I would far rather sit down beside a gentleman I disagree with, than a cad whose opinions coincide with my own.

Well said, and touche. I suppose taking 'pot shots' at others is uncalled for, and it has no real inherent value. Mind you, I didn't see a whole lot of value (or truth) in the post I was responding to either.

As a former 'habitual pot-smoker' myself, I feel I am qualified to resond to this subject. I am in full agreement with Black Dog,

Marijuana should be fully legalized and regulated, thus removing organized crime from the equation.

as it worked for alcohol, a more damaging drug, and the first real 'gateway' or 'stepping stone' to becoming a 'Wasted Rock Ranger'.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Radical religous right  to a leftist    would be any body that  even reads  a bible  and accepts  any thing in it  as truth.

Funny, most of the christian people I know are firmly on the left, but with a splash of social conservatism.

The radical religious right, to me, are those who haven't even bothered to read the book they claim to live by.

Alot of the people on the left now Days  don't even know themselves . Some  have been Stoned  sence about 1970 .  I met a few  that told me  they been stoned  sence they was 17  every day of their lives  they smoke a joint  first thing in the morning  and continue all day long.

And some people on the right have been drunkards since the day they were 17. Your point?

I met a guy in his 30s  said he could not remember  not being  stoned .

And?

So other then the stoners .The left has  Homosexuals, Organised Crime ,Feminist , transvestites,  Buddist  . And  most modern day crooks .    About  every body  thats  got a beef  with something written in the bible    goes left .

You forgot to include those who have actually read the bible...

[Black Dog]

A lot of people sincerely believe that those who grow, sell and use illegal narcotics are criminals who damage society. To blithely state this crime had little to do with marijuana is disengenuous, to say the least. According to the papers there were "hundreds" of marijuana plants there.

Mountie tragedy

All four officers were shot to death in the small community of Mayerthrope on Thursday in what should have been a routine operation investigating stolen car parts and 20 marijuana plants.

20 plants does not a grow-op make. To put that in perspective, the largest indoor grow-op bust (at the old Molson Brewery in Barrie, Ont.) netted 30,000 pot plants.

As for using this tragedy to push their anti-drug agenda, well, justwhen was the last time anyone on your side of the divide failed to capitalise on violence or threats towards gays to push your homosexual agenda, or spousal violence against women (you ignore spousal violence comitted by women) to push your feminist agenda, or mishaps or mistakes commited by the Americans to push your anti-American agenda?

Well, it helps if the incident in question is actually linked to the larger issue. However, this incident had little to do with drugs (the mounties were looking for stolen goods).

It is perfectly understandable to point out the violence underlaying drug trafficing and growth and call for stiffer penalties. It is perfectly acceptable to point out that decriminalizing use of illegal narcotics will increase their use, and thus lead to more profits and more violence from the growers.

How about stiffer penalties for gun owners?

Oh and before anyone laments the uselessness of the gun registry, bear in mind that Alberta has refused to enforce its provisions.

[PocketRocket]

Current Pot laws are based on misinformation, ignorance, and outright lies bandied about in the early part of the last century. Propaganda abounded. Testimonials about how a single hit on a joint could turn a man into a "raving, drooling lunatic".

Of course none of the testimonials came from anyone who had actually tried pot, or even seen anyone else try it first-hand.

If you have any doubt of this, do a google search into how, when and why marijuana laws were created and enacted in Canada.

I may rave, but I seldom drool