POLL: Should Justin Trudeau Keep His Word?

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, dre said:

This issue is so tiny that its not even worth talking about.

I believe the statistic you are talking about is birth tourism. The number I saw was 700 in 2012. The other issue is there are many residents in Canada that are not Canadian citizens, and they are having children here. They may go on to later acquire Canadian citizenship, they may stay as permanent residents but never acquire citizenship, or they may leave (e.g. they were here for a short/medium term work assignment, or possibly here on a student visa). How many of those people are having children that automatically acquire Canadian citizenship?

An interesting fact is that birthright citizenship (Jus soli) is fairly common in the Americas, but not so in Europe or Asia.

Edited February 28, 2017 by ?Impact

[Argus]

2 hours ago, ?Impact said:

I believe the statistic you are talking about is birth tourism. The number I saw was 700 in 2012. The other issue is there are many residents in Canada that are not Canadian citizens, and they are having children here. They may go on to later acquire Canadian citizenship, they may stay as permanent residents but never acquire citizenship, or they may leave (e.g. they were here for a short/medium term work assignment, or possibly here on a student visa). How many of those people are having children that automatically acquire Canadian citizenship?

An interesting fact is that birthright citizenship (Jus soli) is fairly common in the Americas, but not so in Europe or Asia.

Nobody bothers to travel across the world to give birth in Columbia. If BC officials are aware of 26 'baby houses' you can be sure there are many more. And there are many in Toronto and other places, too. And if 300 foreign babies are born in one Richmond hospital I find it difficult to believe there are only another 400 born for the whole of Canada. The data is simply not being routinely collected by hospitals or forwarded.

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Argus

[dre]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

You didn't put where that quote came from. But without even going back to consult previous cites on this specific issue I know that hospitals do not normally report when babies are born to non citizens, so having little statistical evidence on the degree to which it happens makes it easy to pretend it's no big deal.

http://www.cicnews.com/2014/08/government-canada-citizenship-birth-provision-083672.html

The data is from a report by former Immigration minister Jason Kenney which was marked "secret" no doubt because he would have looked stupid taking up this issue if he disclosed how minuscule the "problem" is. Its just political sloganeering and an attempt to tap into anti outsider and xenophobic sentiment for political reasons. Sorta like the moronic "canadian values" test where government bureaucrats will decide what Canadian values are then expect applicants to be dumb enough to admit to not sharing them, or mandatory minimum sentencing and cracking down on crime when crime rates are at an all time low.

We have some real problems... Decades of short sighted trade policy have resulted in stagnant wages... our economy relies to heavy on the sale of commodities that will probably be priced low for a long time to come... The number one consumer of our oil exports is on the verge of energy independance... We have a massive infrastructure deficit, etc, etc, etc. We should push government to focus on those things, not meaningless bullshit.

Edited March 1, 2017 by dre

[Argus]

16 hours ago, dre said:

http://www.cicnews.com/2014/08/government-canada-citizenship-birth-provision-083672.html

The data is from a report by former Immigration minister Jason Kenney which was marked "secret" no doubt because he would have looked stupid taking up this issue if he disclosed how minuscule the "problem" is.

The problem is that the data was incomplete even back then. If there are dozens of 'birth houses' in BC alone, and if one hospital alone has 300 foreign births, there is zero chance that there is only a total of 700 foreign births in Canada. The hospitals are not required to collect or forward this data so they mostly don't. If they don't, just where do you think Kenney or anyone else could get the data from?

[?Impact]

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

 just where do you think Kenney or anyone else could get the data from?

That is a good question. Vital statistics are completed at the provincial level, so I will use Ontario as an example. The statement of live birth contains the name, place of birth, date, etc. for the child. It also include similar information for the parents, but nothing with respect to citizenship although it does ask for a residence address of one of the parents. Perhaps this is where things need to change. While the statement of live birth is probably filled out by the hospital, the parents are supposed to sign it. Should the hospital be demanding proof of citizenship, and what about those who arrive without any?

[Argus]

20 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

That is a good question. Vital statistics are completed at the provincial level, so I will use Ontario as an example. The statement of live birth contains the name, place of birth, date, etc. for the child. It also include similar information for the parents, but nothing with respect to citizenship although it does ask for a residence address of one of the parents. Perhaps this is where things need to change. While the statement of live birth is probably filled out by the hospital, the parents are supposed to sign it. Should the hospital be demanding proof of citizenship, and what about those who arrive without any?

I think that is data which should be collected. That would give us a better idea of the scope of the problem. Given how organized these things apparently are I think proof of citizenship would be required, as anything on residence could be faked. Those who don't have proof of citizenship could have lots of time to get it.