Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Well, like I asked PN in my previous post, what exactly are you scared of? We've been through this. They can't come up with anything tangible, only possibilities. Unlikely what ifs. If the bill had been introduced by Trudeau or Mucair most of them wouldn't have any issue with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 If you think Harper hasn't been emulating the neoconservatives in the States Argus you haven't a clue or are in deep denial. Let's talk about refugees. Let's talk about how the neoconservatives and NATO completely destabilized the region and THAT's why there are all these refugees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 You're more likely to be killed by a Moose in a head crash every year on the number #1 highway. Let's spend all of our money putting up wildlife fences. We'd save more lives. Can a moose fly an airplane into a building? Oh, you think they'll never do that again because it's already been done? Can a moose go into the House of commons and shoot the MPs. You realize we had a home grown group that had that on its planning list, right? Along with setting off a truck bomb at the base of the CN tower to bring it crashing down? You need to address issues not simply on the basis of how likely they are to happen, but on the basis of how possible/difficult it would be to do, and how much damage would be caused if it was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Losing my right to privacy for starters. So just nothing specific, right? Google knows more about you than Harper ever will. The apps on your phone know more about you than CSIS would ever care to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Look at the powers given to CSIS in C 51. They can arrest you without warrant, detain you for 7 days without charge, and all they can't do to you is sexually assault, or kill you. Citation request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) I wasn't attempting levity, just laughing at the content of your post. You can't really do other than laugh. Well, someone who was intelligent and knowledgeable who was interested in discussion could argue things rationally .... but then there's you... Edited September 13, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 You could always actually read it and find out. As most Canadians became at least somewhat familiar with what is i those 62 pages, they turned against it big time. I doubt more than a fraction of 1% of Canadians know much of anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springer Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Argus... Particularly liked the reference to Google! Right on! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) If you think Harper hasn't been emulating the neoconservatives in the States Argus you haven't a clue or are in deep denial. Let's talk about refugees. Let's talk about how the neoconservatives and NATO completely destabilized the region and THAT's why there are all these refugees. The Canadian Conservative Party has almost nothing in common with American conservatives. Most of its policies would suit the Democrats better. Or at least, the democrats before Obama got in. If the conservatives had much in common with the tea party, which so many of you people seem to love to trot out, they'd have slashed every kind of social spending to the bone over the past few years. Instead, they've increased it. Refugees are coming to Europe because they can come to Europe. The war was not instigated by NATO. Nor did NATO destabilize the region, nor can you point to actions they took which did. The only thing you could arguably complain about on behalf of western interference would be the invasion of Iraq. And if they'd removed Hussein and left you'd have a case. But they stuck around for years, giving the locals every opportunity to build a nation, doing their best to mentor the military and keep the various segments of society from slaughtering each other. It's clear, though, that Iraq is like Yugoslavia. The moment the strong man departed it was going to fall apart. And it wasn't exactly stable even before that, which is why there were sanctions and a no-fly zone. Edited September 13, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springer Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Indeed, most American observers of Canadian politics would describe...and some have...Harper as to the left Bill Clinton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 First the only reason the Canadian conservatives haven't been as Neoconservative as the American govt is due to A. they are hamstrung by an electorate who won't tolerate it, B. don't have enough power. " "Refugees are coming to Europe because they can come to Europe. The war was not instigated by NATO. Nor did NATO destabilize the region, nor can you point to actions they took which did." Then you have been completely ignoring what has been happening over the last 30 years. "The only thing you could arguably complain about on behalf of western interference would be the invasion of Iraq. And if they'd removed Hussein and left you'd have a case. But they stuck around for years, giving the locals every opportunity to build a nation, doing their best to mentor the military and keep the various segments of society from slaughtering each other. It's clear, though, that Iraq is like Yugoslavia. The moment the strong man departed it was going to fall apart. And it wasn't exactly stable even before that, which is why there were sanctions and a no-fly zone."" Right so NATO destablized Iraq by taking out it's government, disbanding it, and disbanding their military under Bremer. Then they Turkey included supported the opposition to Assad which destablized Syria, and with Iraq and Syria destablized led to the rise of ISIS which captured all the US material in Mosul and led to an Islamist caliphate controlling much of the Middle East. Let's not also forget that NATO with a Canadian general in the lead also tore Libya into pieces and many of the boatloads of refugees are coming from there. The Neoconservative movement is too delusional too out of touch with reality and far too dangerous to be allowed to continue this insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I doubt more than a fraction of 1% of Canadians know much of anything about it. That's what Harper is hoping for. Of those that do know anything about it, and I conclude you are not in that group, the majority don't support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Well, someone who was intelligent and knowledgeable who was interested in discussion could argue things rationally .... but then there's you... Yes we have all seen how rational you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Citation request. http://thewalrus.ca/bill-c-51-the-good-the-bad-and-the-truly-ugly/ Or you could actually read all 62 pages of the bill and find it all there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 That's what Harper is hoping for. Of those that do know anything about it, and I conclude you are not in that group, the majority don't support it. I know considerably about it. I'm just not a paranoid tinfoil hat wearer like some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 http://thewalrus.ca/bill-c-51-the-good-the-bad-and-the-truly-ugly/ Or you could actually read all 62 pages of the bill and find it all there. Your cite does not support your statement that 'all they can't do to you is sexual assault or kill you". In fact, the bill changes nothing insofar as how the police can treat you. Nor am i terribly upset, as your cite is, that it outlaws promoting or glorifying terrorism. Promoting or glorifying terrorism ought to be outlawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) No, they think the best way to end it is stop the war. The war isn't going to stop until someone with enough weight of metal steps in and stops it. They said that about the first invasion in Iraq too. You can kill as many people as you want but you'll never kill the ideology. We'd be better off trying to convert them into Atheists. Edited September 13, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Can a moose fly an airplane into a building? Oh, you think they'll never do that again because it's already been done? Can a moose go into the House of commons and shoot the MPs. You realize we had a home grown group that had that on its planning list, right? Along with setting off a truck bomb at the base of the CN tower to bring it crashing down? You need to address issues not simply on the basis of how likely they are to happen, but on the basis of how possible/difficult it would be to do, and how much damage would be caused if it was done. You're tossing in things that have never happened here. Kangaroo attacks happen is Australia should we beware of those in Canada too? Is there a terrorist possibly lurking on every roadside? Well there is a Moose possibly lurking on every roadside. Better watch out! The fact is we stopped all of that from happening without needing any more powers. Which is a testament to how much we really don't need any more powers to stop those things from happening. it's a waste of time and money and pandering to a frightened little voting base. Edited September 13, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 They said that about the first invasion in Iraq too. You can kill as many people as you want but you'll never kill the ideology. We'd be better off trying to convert them into Atheists. Why bother? Just don't let them in in the first place. Problem solved. I don't understand this powerful need by the left to flood Canada with Muslims. Why do you want Canada flooded with Muslims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 They said that about the first invasion in Iraq too. And it worked quite well. It ended the occupation of Kuwait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 You're tossing in things that have never happened here. Possibly because the police arrested the Toronto group that wanted to do that. When is the time to prevent such things, AFTER they've happened? The fact is we stopped all of that from happening without needing any more powers. The environment has become more dangerous because of ISIS sympathizers. And I don't see anything about the new law which is going to have any impact on me or any normal Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Your cite does not support your statement that 'all they can't do to you is sexual assault or kill you". In fact, the bill changes nothing insofar as how the police can treat you. Nor am i terribly upset, as your cite is, that it outlaws promoting or glorifying terrorism. Promoting or glorifying terrorism ought to be outlawed. You have to actually read the bill, and understand it, to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I know considerably about it. I'm just not a paranoid tinfoil hat wearer like some. Well, don't worry, the SCC will take care of your, and my, constitutional rights as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Why bother? Just don't let them in in the first place. Problem solved. I don't understand this powerful need by the left to flood Canada with Muslims. Why do you want Canada flooded with Muslims? When did I say I wanted them here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) And it worked quite well. It ended the occupation of Kuwait. I meant the 2nd Bush one. First one of the 2000's. Even the original Bush invasion had some bad long lasting effects that are still felt today... Edited September 14, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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