We don't have to abandon our beliefs just because

[The Terrible Sweal]

And it is being transformed from the bedroom to using the churches to perform ceremonies.

Leave marriage for a man and a woman and setup your own church and definition.

This comment portrays such a profound ignorance of the issue it is almost beyond belief.

Heads up, Ticker ... the government clearly intends to ensure that no church will be required to marry anyone it doesn't want to. The Charter of Rights protects religious freedom. The courts have given no reason to think they would or could impose any obligation on churches to marry people they don't want to marry.

Also, there ARE churches right now who wish to and do marry same-sex couples.

If you want to have your comments taken seriously, you'd do better to have some clue about the facts surrounding the issues, rather than to interject verbiage which is, in context, ill-informed nonsense.

[The Terrible Sweal]

The left ... have to go out of their way to shove their agenda down the throats of believers in God.

Can you give me an example of this?

[I miss Reagan]

Like Ann Coulter says, if you're argueing with a liberal and they don't fly into a tantrum you're doing something wrong. It would add that this is because the left forms their opinions on the basis of emotion rather than logic. No doubt there are outspoken radicals on the religious right which push their beliefs on others. Unfortunately you fail to realize that you yourself are guilty of the same type of "holier than thou", self righteous preaching.

And what does Reagan have to do with anything other than when ever you run out of things cry about you grasp for the only thing you can think of in attempt to insult me personally. Move to the US? Not now, I like Alberta. It's even more conservative than many of the states.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I also believe that the state has no right to impose legislation on a religious institution that many hold personal and sacred.

Then you'll have no problem with what the Liberal government is planning.

It seems to me that religious opponents of same-sex marriage have begun from a fallacious understanding of the law. Religious institutions do not control or define marriage in society. They may define marriage only WITHIN themselves. So, as long as the state requires no change in their activities, the state is not imposing anything on religions.

The contrary is true when religions falsely claim to hold some defining power over the institutions of society as a whole, like civil marriage. That's an attempt to undermine religious freedom and impose theocratic rules.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Ignore.

[maplesyrup]

Churches are grappling with the issue. Some are refusing to marry same-sex couples, some churches are splitting up over it, and some churches, like the Unitarian Church, and the United Church I think, are quietly going ahead with marrying same-sex couples. Each church has to make up their own mind on the issue, but outsiders are not forcing any of them to do something they don't want to do, in this area of same-sex marriages, as far as I know. There is a whole lot of intolerant fear-mongering going on out there.

[I miss Reagan]

The left ... have to go out of their way to shove their agenda down the throats of believers in God.

Can you give me an example of this?

Yes, I'm talking about the left not being happy with a civil union. They have to steal the word "marriage" which is a word religions hold sacred. To me it doesn't seem to be about a homosexual's rights. It seems to be more about shoving it in religious believers faces and saying "your beliefs are wrong".

[maplesyrup]

Leave the friggin' voodoo at home.

Since when does the religious right have ownership over the word marriage? Do you even know what the word means? This is just your excuse to practice intolerance.

[The Terrible Sweal]

The left ... have to go out of their way to shove their agenda down the throats of believers in God.

Can you give me an example of this?

Yes, I'm talking about the left not being happy with a civil union. They have to steal the word "marriage" which is a word religions hold sacred. To me it doesn't seem to be about a homosexual's rights. It seems to be more about shoving it in religious believers faces and saying "your beliefs are wrong".

But there is still no 'imposition'. Do you need me to give you a definition of 'impose'?

BTW, the fact that religious people use a word in a certain way does not give them any exclusive right to use the word to the exclusion of others.

If your apparent position had any merit, presumably western Christians could object to eastern Christians using 'Christmas' as the name for their holiday in January.

Your position holds no water.

[Cartman]

Well if someone is harrassing you as often as you say, and are invading your home and your privacy perhaps you should get a restraining order. Otherwise, perhaps we should legislate a ban on girlscouts selling cookies, hockey kids selling chocolate bars, the cancer society from canvasing, or anyone who approaches anyone else in a public park.

Hmmm...not a bad idea.

I live in Southern Alberta and there are a lot of religious folk pretending to convert people. I say pretending because I highly doubt they actually convert very many. If I want religion, I can look them up in the phonebook. Why bother people at home? Why bother them in parks?

In the summer, it happens pretty much every second or third weekend or so. I put up a sign in my window so that adults don't push their unwanted crap on me, but it is too high for most kids to read. It is a shame that I have to put a sign on my door in the first place and it is a shame that some kids may not ask me for donations etc. because of this "moral" religious behaviour.

Next time I go to the park and see them coming, I will approach them first and politely offer a copy of "The Communist Manifesto" and invite them to our communist lecture series.

[maplesyrup]

I wonder how many people realize that the title of Linda's article, which is the theme for this thread, is:

Are we going to be helpmate to a bully?

Maybe we need to reflect on this title as we all pat ourselves on the back about what moral & upstanding citizens we are, eh!