Canada Supreme Court Rules Against Harper Again

[Argus]

Or just leave well enough alone. The gun crime rate (among most others) has been falling in Canada for decades. All this tough on crime crap Harper is touting is a thinly veiled attempt to garner votes among that portion of their base who may not be aware of the stats. Ya know, granny watches the 24 hr news cycle and gets the idea crime is rampant.

So that wasn't you desperately trying to defend the need for long gun license?

[ToadBrother]

We should support democratic institutions and not desperately seek ways to get appointees to overrule the people we voted for.

An independent judiciary is critical to democratic institutions.

[poochy]

Or just leave well enough alone. The gun crime rate (among most others) has been falling in Canada for decades. All this tough on crime crap Harper is touting is a thinly veiled attempt to garner votes among that portion of their base who may not be aware of the stats. Ya know, granny watches the 24 hr news cycle and gets the idea crime is rampant.

There it is again, now tell us once more why we needed the gun registry.

Edited April 15, 2015 by poochy

[Keepitsimple]

There it is again, now tell us once more why we needed the gun registry.

I'd be curious how he squares that circle as well.

[jacee]

Expression is not necessarily translated into action.

It may be.

.

[Derek 2.0]

Aren't you a member of the gun lobby? And wasn't it the gun lobby who was against the mandatory minimum because someone whose license lapses, but just hadn't had an opportunity to renew would now be facing a mandatory minimum sentence for the "crime" of having their license expire?

Yes to both, but the "paper crimes" (like a license not being renewed in time or lost in mail etc) are being removed from the Firearms Act with Bill C-42 (Common Sense Firearms Act) which is currently in 2nd or 3rd reading, and will be law before the Summer Break.........hence if Gramp's license gets lost in the mail, he won't be woken up one morning to the sound of the RCMP ERT's flashbangs going through his front window and his front door breached........

[Derek 2.0]

I thought that as well. Maybe the fact that their has never been even one single case of a minor licensing or storage offense ever being prosecuted as an indictment was taken into consideration when drafting the legislation.

That's far from true, quite the opposite in fact..........the "exemption" for legal gun owners will be implemented once C-42 receives Royal Assent in the coming month(s).

[Argus]

An independent judiciary is critical to democratic institutions.

I don't disagree. But an independent judiciary without restraint or oversight can be dangerous to democratic institutions and, eventually, the reputation of the judiciary itself.

[jacee]

We should support democratic institutions and not desperately seek ways to get appointees to overrule the people we voted for.

The judiciary is one branch of government.

Checks and balances to protect democracy, you know.

Can't have power hungry partisan politicians running amok.

.

Edited April 16, 2015 by jacee

[Derek 2.0]

It is rather odd that Harper didn't craft the law to exempt the hunters.

That's Harper's real failing I think: He crafts laws to be as harsh as possible on the target criminals - appeal to his 'base' - but he and they seem too dense, devoid of complex thought, to realize that relatively innocent people can be caught up in those laws too. In this case it's quite ironic that his gun toting rural hunter base could end up behind bars for 3 years for putting their ammo on the wrong shelf.

.

C-42, in this example, will do exactly that...............and though convoluted, the regulations encompassing the storage off ammo are not that foolish.

[jacee]

I thought that as well. Maybe the fact that their has never been even one single case of a minor licensing or storage offense ever being prosecuted as an indictment was taken into consideration when drafting the legislation.

Not at all, see above.

So ... it's against the law and we'll charge you but we won't charge you?

Who decides who gets charged and who doesn't?

If you show a CPC membership card, you don't get charged?

Or you have a duck in your freezer?

Who gets charged, who doesn't, and who decides?

That's why the law was struck down.

.

Edited April 16, 2015 by jacee

[Derek 2.0]

And the Tories may rail on against the Supreme Court, but Stephen Harper, whatever his flaws, is no fool, and knows that the political penalty to be paid for invoking Section 33 would be too great.

Bingo....waving fist at the SCC = Red Meat for a part of the base = donations.

[jacee]

Bingo....waving fist at the SCC = Red Meat for a part of the base = donations.

Isn't it odd that the 'law and order' Party despises the Court?

.

Edited April 16, 2015 by jacee

[Derek 2.0]

I'd be curious how he squares that circle as well.

More so the Opposition and the anti-gun lobby........On one hand the Common Sense Firearms act, was to transform Canadian cities into Dodge City, but in this case, stiffer sentences for those that actually commit gun crimes is a solution in need of a problem.......

[Derek 2.0]

Isn't it odd that the 'law and order' Party despises the Court?

.

What makes you feel the "law and order" party, that has appointed the majority of the judges in the SCC, despises it?

[jacee]

What makes you feel the "law and order" party, that has appointed the majority of the judges in the SCC, despises it?

Derek:

"Bingo....waving fist at the SCC = Red Meat for a part of the base = donations."

.

[On Guard for Thee]

There it is again, now tell us once more why we needed the gun registry.

Conflated issues, once again.

[On Guard for Thee]

So that wasn't you desperately trying to defend the need for long gun license?

Conflated issues, once again.

[Bryan]

It may be.

.

That's when it actually matters.

[jacee]

That's when it actually matters.

And that's why we freely express our opinions to government whenever we choose.

.

[Bryan]

And that's why we freely express our opinions to government whenever we choose.

.

Expression is not what changes governments. Toadbrother asked me:

if a Parliament decided to disenfrenchize sone group, what remedy would there be?

Expressing an opinion on that would not change the situation, you have to act. A lot of people express opinions, but then don't show up at the polls.

[Keepitsimple]

Conflated issues, once again.

Could you please explain what you mean by "conflated issues"? Posters have been making a lot of effort to explain their thoughts and positions.....how about a little insight into the question you were asked?

[jacee]

Expression is not what changes governments. Toadbrother asked me:

Expressing an opinion on that would not change the situation, you have to act. A lot of people express opinions, but then don't show up at the polls.

Oh well. Their choice. We have the right to both, either or neither.

And sometimes we choose to "act" between elections.

.

Edited April 16, 2015 by jacee

[On Guard for Thee]

Could you please explain what you mean by "conflated issues"? Posters have been making a lot of effort to explain their thoughts and positions.....how about a little insight into the question you were asked?

Having gun control laws is a completely separate issue from having MMS for people who might break those laws.

[nerve]

Looks like Harper is not getting the message from the Supreme Court. The SC has just shot down mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/mandatory-minimums-for-gun-crimes-struck-down-1.2325934

Do you agree with this decision?

The justice system is really screwed up, not just the courts but the whole thing has faults.

I do think that mandatory jail time is stupid. I think people making these laws need to go undercover in jail to see how much of a waste of tax payer dollars prison programs are. They appear as out of touch and strung along based upon sensationalism. Jail time is a horrible justice process that damages lives not rehabilitates. If you concentrate criminals you arnt removing criminal influences.

Criminals need social help or a new life. If you dont give them a chance to make a stable healthy life it will drag things down. It is a joke these people cost more than someone breaking their back to earn a wage. Costs of incarceration are just too high. There should be a reform zone like taking a ghost town or some island, and anyone who cant live in public without breaking the serious laws should be exiled for life.

95% of criminals are totally fine if they are provided a stable life. Hanging people up in jail is only adding to the barrier of integration.

Mandatory sentences or even minimum sentences or maximum sentences are faulty. However the real issue is a very rotten justice system filled with vindictive and people of bad ethical values. They are out for blood and venegence but then want to put these people back in society, the two don't mingle, you don't brutalize someone and destroy their life then say welcome back, that is just asking for retribution On the human rights abuses. Time heals nothing it only amplifies the problems.

The whole thing is rotten substantiating bad practices by having mandatory jailtime is just making it worse.

Canada needs to get serious. If they can't live in society get rid of them, and not in a cost inflated institution.

More importantly in tune laws need to exist and a non jail petty offence list, and a real crime list. The political crimes need to be vetted as do property crimes which should be replaced with restitution orders.

A crime is a crime, it really doesn't matter if it is a gun a knife or baseball bat. Personally I would be more concerned with a baseball bat. The law was stupid.

Edited April 16, 2015 by nerve