Do we have free health care or not?

[Argus]

I remember the first time I got a bill for an ambulance. I was puzzled and thought it was some sort of mistake. Why would you be charged for an ambulance? After all, isn't health care a public service? Isn't an ambulance a part of public health care system? The bill was small, but I was miffed anyway.

So I caught a story on the CBC last night in which I learn that every province but New Brunswick charges for ambulances, even if you weren't the one who called it. And unlike in Ontario, the charges are hardly small. In some places it's over $500! In Manitoba if you're not a resident and need an ambulance it's $800!

How is this not a disincentive to very sick people to call an ambulance? And by the way there are no exemptions for the poor. We ban for fee medical services which aren't urgent, like diagnostic clinics, yet we seem entirely complacent with an urgent medical service like an ambulance costing so much money? It's ridiculous!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/ambulance-fees-a-roadblock-for-many-who-need-care-1.2946576

[Ash74]

Despite what is said we do have a two tier health care system. The super rich go to the U.S. for care.

Some because they don't want to wait and some because they have no choice.

In a little town outside of Cambridge a lot of people and businesses donated money to send a young girl for a life saving operation that she could not get here and OHIP would not pay for. This is just one example where across Canadian people are running south for health care despite the cost.

[GostHacked]

Ambulatory services are private businesses from what I understant.

And no matter what it is not free, since you pay for it via taxes.

[Argus]

Ambulatory services are private businesses from what I understant.

You understand wrong.

[GostHacked]

Argus, reality check for those on the 'right' .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EMS_Services_in_Ontario

These are private companies which provide non-emergency transportation between healthcare facilities or residences. These services are hired either directly by the patient or occasionally by facilities/hospitals to facilitate the movement of patients to scheduled appointments or discharging home. These services are operated for profit and are not regulated by the Ministry of Health. They should not be confused with Ambulances, Emergency Medical Services or Paramedics. Though generally operating ambulance style vehicles, the skill set of the staff and equipment carried varies greatly between companies. Staff are generally trained however to an Emergency First Responder standard and have basic first aid and oxygen equipment.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/regulations-needed-for-private-ambulances-marin-says/article4261092/

Regulations needed for private ambulances, Marin says

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"We became aware that people thought they were in an ambulance when they weren't. They thought that the driver had skills that they didn't have," Health Minister Deb Matthews said in an interview. "So regulating to make sure that they meet certain standards is what we will do. Exactly what those standards will be is something we're going to be working on."

Mr. Marin, who launched an investigation in January, said what he found was so compelling that he halted the probe and asked Premier Dalton McGuinty directly for immediate action.

"Of all the cases that I've done since I've been ombudsman, this is a case where I've rarely seen such incontrovertible and conclusive and convincing evidence early on, that was really not in dispute," he said.

Mr. Marin said he received more than 60 complaints about private companies providing medical transfer services for an estimated 350,000 to 500,000 non-critical patients every year.

Hospitals do in fact use private ambulatory companies.

Edited February 8, 2015 by GostHacked

[Argus]

Argus, reality check for those on the 'right' .

Hospitals do in fact use private ambulatory companies.

I don't care about private ambulances. I care about emergency ambulances and paramedics. Those are what we're talking about. Although if a person needs to have an ambulance for whatever reason, including transfer between hospitals (unless it's at the patient's request) the government should still be paying for them.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Argus

[GostHacked]

I don't care about private ambulances. I care about emergency ambulances and paramedics. Those are what we're talking about. Although if a person needs to have an ambulance for whatever reason, including transfer between hospitals (unless it's at the patient's request) the government should still be paying for them.

I simply challenged the overall notion that there are no private ambulatory services. And according to the wiki page, not every city has the same set up. Ottawa's EMS is operated by the city, but treats it as a separate entity. as other's might decide to contract them out, as seeming popular in Northern Ontario, again acccording to the wiki.

I am with you that the gov should be paying for it via our taxes and I should not need to shell out any money. But non-emergency patient transfers appear to be using a lot of private companies to provide this service.

[cybercoma]

There shouldn't be any out of pocket costs for an ambulance. There should, however, be a nominal fee for walking into an ER, but that's a different subject.

[Argus]

There shouldn't be any out of pocket costs for an ambulance. There should, however, be a nominal fee for walking into an ER, but that's a different subject.

I don't even mind Ontario's $45 fee if the ambulance ride is not medically necessary. But the other provinces' fees are way too high even for genuine emergencies.

[overthere]

It vaiies with provinces, like so many other health care services.

In Alberta ambulance services for, seniors, first nations, poor people and inter hospital transfers are free. It's $250 to $400 for others, though many have plans through their workplace.

Everybody who works or actually pays taxes in Canada pays for health care. If your province pays for your ambulance ride, it just means that everybody pays a little more tax.

[Hydraboss]

There is Public health care in Canada, but it's not even close to free. And it's also a multi-payer system and multi-tier. Joe Blow public has one system, welfare has another, military has another, sports teams have yet another.

No such thing as free health care in Canada (unless you're on welfare).

[Bryan]

I like the charge for ambulances, it helps filter out people just looking for a free taxi ride. Before we worry about which ambulance rides are or are not emergencies, we need to be filtering what ER visits really are emergencies.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Bryan

[Argus]

I like the charge for ambulances, it helps filter out people just looking for a free taxi ride. Before we worry about which ambulance rides are or are not emergencies, we need to be filtering what ER visits really are emergencies.

Ontario charges $45 for ambulance rides which are judged medically unnecessary. That is more than sufficient to deter people looking for 'a free ride'. Charging people hundreds of dollars for an ambulance even when it was called by police or the individual was near death is unconscionable.

[cybercoma]

I like the charge for ambulances, it helps filter out people just looking for a free taxi ride. Before we worry about which ambulance rides are or are not emergencies, we need to be filtering what ER visits really are emergencies.

The Conservative Health Minister in New Brunswick early last year scrapped the ambulance fee for uninsured New Brunswickers saying, “Do you not do the right thing because one per cent of the people might abuse it? Is that a reason for not doing right? If something appears to be abusive…I’ll deal with it quickly and swiftly. You can be assured of that.”

If that Conservative can get his head around this, so can you.

[Bryan]

Progressive Conservative = Liberal wearing a blue suit.

[Newfoundlander]

Seeing that tax dollars pay for the bulk of health care services, no it's not free.

[Spiderfish]

I like the charge for ambulances, it helps filter out people just looking for a free taxi ride. Before we worry about which ambulance rides are or are not emergencies, we need to be filtering what ER visits really are emergencies.

I agree, tying up ambulances when it's not an emergency is wasteful and potentially life-threatening. When I was living in AB I knew several EMS and was surprised when they described how busy things would get on Friday nights in several nearby rural areas, particularly when ambulance and EMS shortages were headline news in the province. I think a nominal charge for ambulance service is a good idea as long as it's not punitive and doesn't discourage or prevent people from calling an ambulance when they need it.

[Argus]

I agree, tying up ambulances when it's not an emergency is wasteful and potentially life-threatening. When I was living in AB I knew several EMS and was surprised when they described how busy things would get on Friday nights in several nearby rural areas, particularly when ambulance and EMS shortages were headline news in the province. I think a nominal charge for ambulance service is a good idea as long as it's not punitive and doesn't discourage or prevent people from calling an ambulance when they need it.

$500 is not 'nominal'.

[Spiderfish]

$500 is not 'nominal'.

It's not, $500 is discouraging and simply unaffordable for some.

My family was in a car accident in MB this past summer and 2 ambulances were called. I nearly fell over when I got the bill. Luckily the accident was not their fault and insurance covered it (after a couple of months of fighting with MPIC).

Edited February 13, 2015 by Spiderfish