Argus Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 I posted a column earlier that suggested that Liberals used to be the party of Catholics. I wonder if this policy might change that a bit. Actally, if the Catholic Church really believed in its opposition to abortion it ought to expel Justin Trudeau. Apparently he's a practicing Catholic (who believes scoring political points is more important than his religion) Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 y'see Argus? We agree. No one should have control over a woman's pregnancy. I'm merely pointing out that your belief that the decision would be wholly hers is rather naive given the nature of the communities involved which are most likely to engage in this practice. I don't think there is such a thing as complete control of anything. As westcoast has already pointed out, if a woman wants a late term abortion she will have to get approval from someone in authority in the hospital in which it takes place. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 And we now have a leader who is clear where the party stands on important moral issues. I prefer this certainty, to playing politics with the lives and rights of people. Ethics should not be subject to a popularity contest. Whose ethics? Whose conscience? Who's sense of morality? You're perfectly fine with one man dictating all that, mainly, let's face it, not out of his OWN sense of morality, but in a cheap ploy to score political points? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 Which part of my vile comment? I've pretty well proven that Alberta is the province that's most into brother/sister luuuvvvvv. And Alabama is too. Hillbilly mean anything to ya all? You haven't proven anything but how ignorant you can be. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 That is the problem with these stats. They can be used to support anyone's argument. Well, not really. They can't be used to support Trudeau's... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 28% in favour of a law protecting human life from conception on (compared to 20% who think human life should be legally protected only from birth on). ----- Those percentages don't sound like a large majority to me. First, I wouldn't dismiss the belief of 28% of the population as insignificant. Second, those are the abolutists. Larger numbers believe a woman should be able to get an abortion but want some time limits on how late in the pregnancy that happens. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 Right, JT is simply supporting the status quo and ensuring that future candidates will not vote to remove a woman's choice and safe accessibility. Nor vote to put in term a few basic laws concerning late term abortions like Sweden an Finland and France and Germany and Austria and Australia have.... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 JT is making sure that future candidates do not vote to remove safe and accessible access to abortions for canadians. Period! Oh come on. There was no chance of that happening anyway. Pretty much everyone acknowledges this is just a cheap political stunt to score points against the NDP. It's not being done for the sake of women or to protect abortions. And to repeat, it was done without even telling his own caucus about it... So much for empowering MPs and being different than Harper. Heck, Harper at least discusses stuff with his caucus, and leaves them free to vote their consciences on moral issues. It looks like Trudeau wants to reign in his caucus even more than Harper ever has. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Keepitsimple Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 28% in favour of a law protecting human life from conception on (compared to 20% who think human life should be legally protected only from birth on). ----- Those percentages don't sound like a large majority to me. Read it again.....but it's not the precise numbers that are important....it's that when you force your "choice" to be Abortion on Demand, you run the risk of alienating a good portion of this "large majority"......and as I said, we'll just have to wait and see... The survey found that 72% of Canadians feel that there should be some form of legal protection for human life before birth.... Quote Back to Basics
monty16 Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 No, I do not accept that Alberta is extreme right, by any measure. Both major cities are led by progressive mayors, one of them a brown Muslim. The young mayor of Edmonton is hardly right wing. The last longterm mayor of Edmonton was Jewish and likely the best mayor in generations. A previous mayor(Jan Reimer) was somewhere to the left of Mao. The last premier was a centrist woman. All the final three candidates for the PCs in the last leadership campaign were centrist Red Tories. The leader of the provincial Liberals is another brown man, likely Hindu but I'm not sure and nobody cares. Alberta is a centrist province politically. They spend gobs of money on right wing programs like public health, public education and public infrastructure programs. Your turn. Alberta is the most right of any of the provinces and my opinion remains that they are extreme right. Quote
Argus Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 Alberta is the most right of any of the provinces and my opinion remains that they are extreme right. Don't you think you need to define what that means? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
monty16 Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 Read it again.....but it's not the precise numbers that are important....it's that when you force your "choice" to be Abortion on Demand, you run the risk of alienating a good portion of this "large majority"......and as I said, we'll just have to wait and see... No, you are wrong. Abortion on demand is the only democratic position to take. We are not the US and we don't dictate to women what they can do with their bodies. Yet! It's pretty obvious that Harper would like to lead us into the American way though. He just has to get up the nerve to proclaim it. Canada must remain with the attitude that it's our social responsibility to teach people how to avoid the need for abortions. Good universal health care is part of that because Canadian women know they will be looked after during and after their pregnancy. In the US women most likely seek abortions because they know they are going to be bankrupted if the follow through with having the baby. Quote
monty16 Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Don't you think you need to define what that means? No, I do not think I need to define what that means. Check out the statistics on how many extreme right govs they have elected in the last 100 years and compare that to any other normal Canadian province. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 No, you are wrong. Abortion on demand is the only democratic position to take. We are not the US and we don't dictate to women what they can do with their bodies. Yet! It's pretty obvious that Harper would like to lead us into the American way though. He just has to get up the nerve to proclaim it. Canada must remain with the attitude that it's our social responsibility to teach people how to avoid the need for abortions. Good universal health care is part of that because Canadian women know they will be looked after during and after their pregnancy. In the US women most likely seek abortions because they know they are going to be bankrupted if the follow through with having the baby. If you read the surveys, your opinion is but a fairly small minority of the public - but you are entitled to your opinion. I can't and won't say it's wrong - just that your opinion supporting nothing less that Abortion on Demand is a minority one. Quote Back to Basics
Icebound Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 If you read the surveys, your opinion is but a fairly small minority of the public - but you are entitled to your opinion. I can't and won't say it's wrong - just that your opinion supporting nothing less that Abortion on Demand is a minority one. OH? This article would suggest quite the otherwise... http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/poll-50-percent-of-all-catholics-support-abortion-in-all-or-most-cases Quote
Argus Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 No, you are wrong. Abortion on demand is the only democratic position to take. We are not the US And Sweden? Norway? Denmark? Finland? Belgium? France? Germany? Spain? Austria? New Zealand? They're not democratic I guess, right? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 No, I do not think I need to define what that means. Check out the statistics on how many extreme right govs they have elected in the last 100 years and compare that to any other normal Canadian province. There are statistics which show which governments are 'right wing" vs something else? Don't you realize how dumb it is to keep saying they're 'extreme right' and yet not be able to even define what that means? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Actally, if the Catholic Church really believed in its opposition to abortion it ought to expel Justin Trudeau. Apparently he's a practicing Catholic (who believes scoring political points is more important than his religion) Are you trying to suggest that Catholic's don't get abortions? Quote
Mighty AC Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Whose ethics? Whose conscience? Who's sense of morality? You're perfectly fine with one man dictating all that, mainly, let's face it, not out of his OWN sense of morality, but in a cheap ploy to score political points? Yeah, I am fine with the party adopting the position of 'choice'. I also think the cheap political ploy is to be vague about one's intentions on ethical matters in an attempt to appeal to more voters. You know, like the CPC has traditionally played it. As mentioned I had a CPC MP who refused to answer questions on social issues, but when in power chose to oppose equal marriage based on his conscience and not with the wishes of his constituency. I think the open and honest approach the Liberals are taking is the morally correct decision, but it will probably cost them votes. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Time will tell if his party supports his moral determination on the issue, and equally importantly, if they have the stomach to be part of a party that governs by a leader that has no interest in member contributions to such a decision or shows such disinterest in their personal moral judgement and the judgement of many of the people who they represent. As a con do you find it hard to keep a straight face when you make statements like this? Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Spiderfish Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 As a con do you find it hard to keep a straight face when you make statements like this? I find it a bit difficult to keep a straight face when Trudeau makes unilateral party decisions such as this all while touting a more open, inclusive and positive style of politics. Quote
Argus Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Are you trying to suggest that Catholic's don't get abortions? If you're a faithful Catholic then you certainly don't. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Yeah, I am fine with the party adopting the position of 'choice'. You mean no choice. I also think the cheap political ploy is to be vague about one's intentions on ethical matters in an attempt to appeal to more voters. You know, like the CPC has traditionally played it. The CPC has been fairly consistent in its belief that matters of conscience are best left to individual MPs and their constituents. I agree with them. As mentioned I had a CPC MP who refused to answer questions on social issues, Then don't vote for him. If something was important to me and a candidate refused to answer questions on it I certainly wouldn't vote for them. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Peter F Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 No. He means 'Choice' - as in : if somebody wants an abortion they can have one. If somebody doesn't want an abortion then they don't have one. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
overthere Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Yeah, I am fine with the party adopting the position of 'choice'. I also think the cheap political ploy is to be vague about one's intentions on ethical matters in an attempt to appeal to more voters. You know, like the CPC has traditionally played it. As mentioned I had a CPC MP who refused to answer questions on social issues, but when in power chose to oppose equal marriage based on his conscience and not with the wishes of his constituency. I think the open and honest approach the Liberals are taking is the morally correct decision, but it will probably cost them votes. It's the same 'cheap political choice' wholeheartedly adopted by Mulroney for a few years and by Chretien and Martin- those well known Conservatives- for about 15 years. All three personally were prolifers, at least two of them pretty strong Catholics. If you are pro choice and thought it through, you'd know that legislating this issue, or even giving it airtime in Parliament, is not to your advantage. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.