Justin Trudeau kicks all "Liberal" Senators out of Caucus.

[Guest Derek L]

clarity on what? That, it clarifies directly, as stated, the Independent Senators won't be, "sitting in on Trudeau’s caucus meetings"

But can still sit as the official Opposition within the Senate……..how do all these free thinkers, now unencumbered by the reigns of the LPC, sit together to oppose the CPC majority caucus?

[Boges]

But can still sit as the official Opposition within the Senate……..how do all these free thinkers, now unencumbered by the reigns of the LPC, sit together to oppose the CPC majority caucus?

JT has freed them though. It's a example of democracy in action!!! Wait, no it's not.

[Guest Derek L]

JT has freed them though. It's a example of democracy in action!!! Wait, no it's not.

I’ve no doubt that Trudeau has parted the Red Sea………

Oh well, I guess the Liberals can set their sights on 2019

[waldo]

But can still sit as the official Opposition within the Senate……..how do all these free thinkers, now unencumbered by the reigns of the LPC, sit together to oppose the CPC majority caucus?

why are you so afraid... why revert to your standard strawman plays?

[Guest Derek L]

why are you so afraid... why revert to your standard strawman plays?

Afraid? Of Trudeau?

So again:

how do all these free thinkers, now unencumbered by the reigns of the LPC, sit together to oppose the CPC majority caucus?

How do independents sit together? Would not that signal co-dependency?

Independent

¹in·de·pen·dent

not dependent: as

a (1) : not subject to control by others : self-governing (2): not affiliated with a larger controlling unit <an independentbookstore>

So why do all these “independent Senators” have or even need a leader within the Senate?

[cybercoma]

nice! Does any reform start... somewhere? Somewhere other than NDP calls for abolition?

The NDP's call for abolition is madness and reform has already begun with the populist sentiment. Trudeau hasn't started anything and he hasn't changed anything.

[cybercoma]

How do independents sit together? Would not that signal co-dependency?

They obviously don't. I don't really see much point in continuing this back and forth. They're still calling themselves Liberals. They're still a block that forms the official opposition in the Senate. The only thing this changes is that they don't sit in caucus meetings. Which means what exactly? They'll still be in constant communication with the party and will be able to informally bring their ideas to the table. To quote The Bard, "It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[Guest Derek L]

They obviously don't. I don't really see much point in continuing this back and forth. They're still calling themselves Liberals. They're still a block that forms the official opposition in the Senate. The only thing this changes is that they don't sit in caucus meetings. Which means what exactly? They'll still be in constant communication with the party and will be able to informally bring their ideas to the table. To quote The Bard, "It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Typical Liberal party of Canada faux window dressing……..I can’t wait until the Liberal’s unleash their entire policy platform.

[Boges]

To quote The Bard, "It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

I demand royalties for that pull. Read the OP? :-D

WHOA JT! Now you got everyone's attention. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/01/29/justin_trudeau_boots_all_senators_from_liberal_caucus.htm

So under JT's system Senators get appointed but can't have any official political affiliation. That means unelected senators can overturn a law passed by the elected House and the PM can't do diddly squat about it? That's some great democracy there Lou.

This is a "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[cybercoma]

I demand royalties for that pull. Read the OP? :-D

Ha! I completely forgot that you said that.

[waldo]

Afraid? Of Trudeau?

So again:

How do independents sit together? Would not that signal co-dependency?

Independent

So why do all these “independent Senators” have or even need a leader within the Senate?

hey Mr. Excessive Whitespace returns!

[Guest Derek L]

hey Mr. Excessive Whitespace returns!

Afraid of answering the question and staying on topic? Or do you have nothing, like the Trudeau Liberals, and have to revert to personal attacks on MLW members?

[waldo]

I don't really see much point in continuing this back and forth.

clearly! Trudeau acted to directly follow one of the two specific pieces of the NDP motion you touted so... that motion said nothing about party affiliation. And yet... you doth protest... too much! You won't even accept the action as a required part of reform. You want more but are so partisan you can't bring yourself to acknowledge this is a positive step.

I quoted Independent MP Rathberger, if for nothing else, than he is Independent... and he retains, proudly, his Conservative Party membership. He took a principled action to move to an Independent status, to remove himself from the Conservative caucus. I sure don't recall partisan Harper Conservative supporters on this board claiming his actions were 'smoke & mirrors... that he is still a Conservative'. Funny that, hey?

.

[waldo]

Afraid of answering the question and staying on topic? Or do you have nothing, like the Trudeau Liberals, and have to revert to personal attacks on MLW members?

by design, does the Senate require a duly designated Official Opposition? Yes or no? If yes, how is it determined?

an attack? Did you really take offense to (once again) being called on your incessant need to spread your post across 2 and 3 times the required space?

[Guest Derek L]

by design, does the Senate require a duly designated Official Opposition? Yes or no? If yes, how is it determined?

That’s not answering the question…..Cowan is still the leader of the official opposition (of unLiberal Senators) within the Senate……Why do Independents require leadership, if they’re independent?

an attack? Did you really take offense to (once again) being called on your incessant need to spread your post across 2 and 3 times the required space?

Certainly, per the MLW rules:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forum-weblog-rules

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS

Please respect others by refraining from personal attacks. There is a huge difference between disagreeing with a thought or idea and attacking an individual. We encourage lively debate and intelligent critiques of others viewpoints, not tirades against another poster.

Now if you feel my posting format is contravening the rules of MLW, by all means, report it.

[Keepitsimple]

Sorry to post it again - but it seems some have ignored the clear message that was sent by the Senate Speaker. These Liberal Senators can no longer attend Trudeau's caucus meetings. That's all that's changed. The Speaker has spoken.

Quote

In the end, Kinsella ruled that the Liberal senators remain Liberal senators, despite not sitting in on Trudeau’s caucus meetings. Cowan remains their leader, and that together, they form a caucus that serves as the official Opposition.

Link: http://www.thestar.c...ames_cowan.html

[waldo]

Now if you feel my posting format is contravening the rules of MLW, by all means, report it.

sorry to "attack you'! Why all the whitespace? Why the need to spread your posts across a length 2 or 3 times their requirement?

[waldo]

Sorry to post it again - but it seems some have ignored the clear message that was sent by the Senate Speaker. These Liberal Senators can no longer attend Trudeau's caucus meetings.

good on ya for repeating that Simple!

[Guest Derek L]

Sorry to post it again - but it seems some have ignored the clear message that was sent by the Senate Speaker. These Liberal Senators can no longer attend Trudeau's caucus meetings. That's all that's changed. The Speaker has spoken.

So they can no longer attend a weekly meeting? That’s it? The Senate is fixed in the Trudeau Liberal’s mind……..

I almost feel sorry for the Liberals, especially the “old guard”……

[Boges]

The Liberals don't want much to change in the Senate. JT even said himself it gives a great deal of power to Quebec.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/26/justin-trudeau-wont-abolish-senate-as-it-benefits-quebec

"We have 24 senators from Quebec and there are just six from Alberta and British Columbia. It's to our advantage," he told a French newspaper.

"To want to abolish it is demagoguery," he said in a rebuke of NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair's campaign to mothball the place. "We'll have to improve it."

Mulcair responded Sunday that it's not to anyone's advantage to keep the Senate.

So his solution is allowing a committee to appoint Senators instead of the PMO. Though he's a little unclear on who appoints the committee. Wanna bet it'll be the PMO? Edited February 3, 2014 by Boges

[waldo]

So his solution is allowing a committee to appoint Senators instead of the PMO. Though he's a little unclear on who appoints the committee. Wanna bet it'll be the PMO?

I guess you can tailor the hypothetical selection process any way you'd like. One would think that if you were truly for Senate reform you would be speaking of positive ways/means to structure a possible selection process.

[Guest Derek L]

So his solution is allowing a committee to appoint Senators instead of the PMO. Though he's a little unclear on who appoints the committee. Wanna bet it'll be the PMO?

So he’s proposing fixing the democratic deficit within the Senate by appointing a committee, to appoint Senators…….Brilliant!!!!

[waldo]

So they can no longer attend a weekly meeting?

one would think the way you've been going on for the last pages of this thread, you would have realized this! Of course, those Independent Senators won't be privy to or participate in what goes on in those meetings. Anyway, good to read you're finally getting it.

Edited February 3, 2014 by waldo

[waldo]

So he’s proposing fixing the democratic deficit within the Senate by appointing a committee, to appoint Senators…….Brilliant!!!!

setting aside your presumptions on the process... what's your personal brilliant idea(s) for improving on, for example, Harper appointing hockey players, journalists, his former aides, etc.?

[Guest Derek L]

setting aside your presumptions on the process... what's your personal brilliant idea(s) for improving on, for example, Harper appointing hockey players, journalists, his former aides, etc.?

Clearly a Triple-E Senate.....but of course, this topic is on the Trudeau Liberals faux "Senate reform".