whos right whos wrong

[socrates]

What is it that you think about the war in iraq was Bush dumb to go in or was it or was France the one that misunderstood the lay of tyhe land. and depending on what you think what is Bush doing right or wrong, should he stay or go what should he do if he does say. I would like your opinons on the matter.

And for those of who are the average person who says Bush is retarted but doesnt know what they would have done or at least a opinion based on something please dont write because i dont want to waste time listening to someones who im not going to leann any thing from.

[Big Blue Machine]

It's too late now. But the wounds from this spit-spat with US and Frnace will not heal for a thousand years.

[August1991]

It's too late now. But the wounds from this spit-spat with US and Frnace will not heal for a thousand years.

France and the UK declared war on Hitler's Germany on 3 Sep 1939. The US waited until 7 Dec 1941.

There was no harm done by the wait.

If we are lucky in this case, France will not have to do more than worry about a few hostages. (Hostages who choose to put themselves in harm's way by travelling to dangerous places.)

[Big Blue Machine]

But World War 2 was a REAL war.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

France and the UK declared war on Hitler's Germany on 3 Sep 1939. The US waited until 7 Dec 1941.

France and the UK declared war on Germany based on their treaty obligations to Poland. Since neither the UK nor France was prepared for war, the world first saw the 'Sitzkrieg', the "Armchair War'. Much as we are seeing today.

Germany declared war against the US first, according to their treaty obligations to Japan. The US only declared war on Germany, (and Japan) because of direct attacks against the US, and therein lies the crux of 'raison d'etre' of US foreign policy. They only act out of self interest. Always have, always will, because self-interest is the impetus of the 'right wing' (including the extreme of the far right-wing, Anarchy).

By the By, one of my arguments against the US 'occupation' of Iraq is that they never formally declared war, yet try to use it's 'international legal clauses' to their own benefit.

[The Terrible Sweal]

By the By, one of my arguments against the US 'occupation' of Iraq is that they never formally declared war, yet try to use it's 'international legal clauses' to their own benefit.

True. And then there's the rhetoric of alliances abandoned, despite the fact that the alliance terms were not invoked and would not cover this false, illegal 'war'.

[takeanumber]

France, as usual, was just looking out for France.

Iraq owed France debt. France didn't want a repeat of the Russian fiasco.

I think France should forfeit its debt.

If they care for the people and children of Iraq as much as they purport, they should do so now.

If not, then I suppose we'll know exactly where France's interests lie.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear takeanumber,

France, as usual, was just looking out for France.

Iraq owed France debt.

You are correct. France was owed billions, and the oil contracts with Iraq were with TotalFinaElf. Now they are with Halliburton. Iraq was going to trade strictly with the Euro, and possibly devalue the mighty US greenback. Can't have that now, can we?

However, The US was just looking out for the US, and look what's become of the mess.

[Newfie Canadian]

I prefer a more optimistic view.

France declined supporting the invasion of Iraq because they have seen enough war to realize that it is a serious and brutal business.

Too brutal in fact, to be undertaken in the face of scant evidence and rotating reasoning for the war in the first place.

On the other hand, money makes the world go around.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I'd look at it this way:

The French government did the right thing. They were lucky that doing the right thing also aligned with there financial interests.

The U.S. government did the wrong thing. American citizens (as distinct from the cabal close to the President) are unlucky that doing the wrong thing is also against their financial interests.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear The Terrible Sweal,

American citizens (as distinct from the cabal close to the President) are unlucky that doing the wrong thing is also against their financial interests.

No so, invading Iraq for oil is the only thing in the common American's interest. Controlling oil reserves means you get to set the price. Most of the OPEC countries are 'moderates', enjoying the support of the US in their subjugation of their peoples. (This is Osama's big beef). If oil producing countries that were not 'US friendly', they could set the price as they saw fit, say $100/bbl, and countries like Venezuela could charge $98 and get away with it. Then, with gas at $5-10 dollars a gallon, Americans would get pretty antsy, demanding 'regime change' from within.

[barbarosa]

theloniusfleabag took the words out of my mouth

france was in fact in debt to iraq

america looks out for america

socrates hasnt said anything to follow up(not much of a philosopher is he)

this conversation has come to a close

france is in a mess right now(where are the musketeers when u need them!) & yes france works for france and only france

I dont see how much longer america con keep its illusion believeable