Veterans vs Harper government

[cybercoma]

No, unlimited liability.........don't blur the legal meaning, in military context, unlimited liability refers to a expectation that the individual could be expected to sacrifice life and limb through the course of their career……If a person joins the Forces without that expectation, in that the things the military do are potentially dangerous, they probably shouldn’t be in the service………..Go drive a city bus.

In other words, thanks for risking your life for the missions we send you on, but go bend yourself when you're sick or hurt in the process. Perhaps we should do the same with cops and firefighters, right? Sorry about your luck, but you knew the risks when you signed up.

Edited August 3, 2013 by cybercoma

[Guest Derek L]

In other words, thanks for risking your life for the missions we send you on, but go bend yourself when you're sick or hurt in the process. Perhaps we should do the same with cops and firefighters, right? Sorry about your luck, but you knew the risks when you signed up.

As I said to others with unfounded responses, go look at the options available to current (disabled) veterans, including the disability pension route, as was open to WW II and Korean vets.........It’s rich that the NDP are trying to fan the flames to a (non)issue that they voted for……….The No Defense Policy party is still a laughing stock among military circles…….I fail to see their angle on this one.

[jacee]

As I responded to Wilber above, prior to casting an uneducated opinion, look up (from the links above) the services currently provided..These issues are addressed, and vets are given the choice between a pension or reward from VAC..

Nobody's talking about WWII vets, except to clarify what Afghanistan vets are NOT getting.

Pump 'em up.

Smash 'em up.

Shut 'em up.

Sounds like every parent's dream job for their kids.

[Guest Derek L]

Nobody's talking about WWII vets, except to clarify what Afghanistan vets are NOT getting.

Pump 'em up.

Smash 'em up.

Shut 'em up.

Sounds like every parent's dream job for their kids.

And that's where you're wrong.......the same services are still available to recent Veterans, read the links provided to VAC

[jacee]

And that's where you're wrong.......the same services are still available to recent Veterans, read the links provided to VAC

Not for disabled Afghanistan vets.

I think you're trying to mislead and cover up the truth, Derek.

From op link:

The lawsuit filed last fall by six veterans claims that the new charter, which replaces life-time pensions with workers compensation-style lump sum awards for wounds, violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

In all cases, the awards are substantially less than what service members would have received under the old Pension Act system, which was initially set up following the First World War.

Edited August 4, 2013 by jacee

[Guest Derek L]

Not for disabled vets.

I think you're trying to mislead and cover up the truth, Derek.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/information-canadian-forces

[jacee]

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/information-canadian-forces

In all cases, the awards are substantially less than what service members would have received under the old Pension Act system, which was initially set up following WWI.

Why would they settle for less?

Edited August 5, 2013 by jacee

[Guest Derek L]

In all cases, the awards are substantially less than what service members would have received under the old Pension Act system, which was initially set up following WWI.

Why would they settle for less?

There are two types of disability benefits

• Disability Pension
• Disability Award

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/disability-benefits

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/disability-benefits/disability-pension

Disability pensions provide monthly tax-free payments to eligible:

• War Service Veterans (including Merchant Navy Veterans) of the Second World War or the Korean War
• Civilians who served in close support of the Armed Forces during wartime
• current and former members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP)
• Canadian Forces (CF) members and Veterans*

or

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/disability-benefits/disability-award

Disability Award

The Disability Award provides injured Canadian Forces members or Veterans with a tax-free cash award for an injury or illness resulting from military service.

The amount of the award will depend on:

• the degree to which your disability is related to your service (entitlement); and
• the extent of your disability (assessment).

Your military rank or years of service have no connection to the amount you may receive.

The Disability Award is designed to provide you with an immediate financial support if you have been injured while serving our country. In addition, you may also qualify for additional allowances. Benefits for your survivors are also available. There are more supports and services available to you and a Disability Award is not required to qualify for these programs. This support includes:

• rehabilitation, mental health and case management services;
• monthly income to replace lost wages while participating in our rehab program;
• a retirement benefit for those unable to work;
• health care benefits; and
• help to find a new career.

It's called reading and understanding the services offered

[jacee]

It's called reading and understanding the services offered

Smoke and mirrors, still not addressing the fact that it's less than previous veterans got.

And you think it's ok to screw disabled veterans after the fact?

Edited August 5, 2013 by jacee

[Guest Derek L]

It's still less than previous veterans got.

And you think it's ok to screw disabled veterans after the fact?

No it's not:

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/department/facts-fait/new-veterans-charter

• Under the Enhanced New Veterans Charter Act, eligibility criteria for the Permanent Impairment Allowance (PIA) and the Exceptional Incapacity Allowance have been broadened. Recipients of the PIA may also be eligible for a new $1,000 monthly supplement. With these changes, Canada’s severely injured Veterans may be eligible for a minimum of $58,000 a year

From the OP linked article:

He lost both legs above the knee, one testicle, suffered numerous lacerations and a ruptured eardrum. He has since been diagnosed with depressive disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder.

Campbell received a lump-sum payment for pain and suffering of $260,000. He will receive his military pension, with an earnings loss benefit and a permanent impairment allowance but he is entirely unable to work and will suffer a net earnings loss due to his injuries, the lawsuit claims.

So he got:

260K lump sum (tax free)

His regular military pension till death (Which for an officer of his rank and service is more than generous)

A minimum of 58K a year (tax free) until he's 65

Plus is open to other benefits, his spouse (or children) can get caregiver benefits and he can even apply for a benefit that will take care of maintaining his home with tasks he’s no longer able (ie yard work or minor home repairs)

If he thinks past Vets had it better, he’s got rocks in his head.

This lawsuit has been filed by six veterans, of over 190 000 veterans that have taken part in the revised, bi-partisan supported, Veterans Charter........one would think if Veterans were getting screwed by the Government, more than six would have spoke up.......

[jacee]

No it's not:

They say it is ... in court.

This lawsuit has been filed by six veterans, of over 190 000 veterans that have taken part in the revised, bi-partisan supported, Veterans Charter........one would think if Veterans were getting screwed by the Government, more than six would have spoke up.......

It's a class action, so will apply to all disabled vets.

[jacee]

No it's not:

They say it is ... in court.

This lawsuit has been filed by six veterans, of over 190 000 veterans that have taken part in the revised, bi-partisan supported, Veterans Charter........one would think if Veterans were getting screwed by the Government, more than six would have spoke up.......

It's a class action, so will apply to all disabled vets.

I find it very odd that you are such a strong supporter of all things military ... except injured soldiers.

Kinda seems like a fascination without a reality base: Reality is ... soldiers get injured ... it's all part of the package and the responsibility.

Edited August 5, 2013 by jacee

[Guest Derek L]

They say it is ... in court. It's a class action, so will apply to all disabled vets.

No, they said:

He will receive his military pension, with an earnings loss benefit and a permanent impairment allowance but he is entirely unable to work and will suffer a net earnings loss due to his injuries, the lawsuit claims.

Meaning due to his injures, he’ll suffer a future loss in income……..big difference between stating that the previous Veterans Charter would have addressed that.

It's a class action, so will apply to all disabled vets.

No, it will apply to those who join the suite.......currently only six of over 190 000 have.

I find it very odd that you are such a strong supporter of all things military ... except injured soldiers. Kinda seems like a fascination without a reality base: Reality is ... soldiers get injured ... it's all part of the package and the responsibility.

I do support the Forces in a great many things........I don't support frivolous non-issues, fanned by members of the Opposition (Even though they supported the revision), intended to play on the heart strings of the unaware public, with ultimately only lawyers (from both sides) standing to gain……..Like I said, these are six veterans upset with their financial positions that have went public……let me know when just 1% of the 190 000+ Vets publicly share their grievances…

[jacee]

No, they said:

Meaning due to his injures, hell suffer a future loss in income..big difference between stating that the previous Veterans Charter would have addressed that.

It did say that too. I posted the quote twice. You failed to address it. They might suspend me if I post it again.

No, it will apply to those who join the suite.......currently only six of over 190 000 have.

If certified, other injured veterans can opt in.

You are intentionally minimizing, seem to have a stake in this, an agenda.

[Guest Derek L]

It did say that too. I posted the quote twice. You failed to address it. They might suspend me if I post it again.

If certified, other injured veterans can opt in.

You are intentionally minimizing, seem to have a stake in this, an agenda.

Minimizing? There’s six, publicly, upset veterans of over 190000.….. It's called perspective!!

[jacee]

Minimizing? Theres six, publicly, upset veterans of over 190000... It's called perspective!!

Yes minimizing ... and misleading.

I'm sure you know what "class-action" means.

Do you know how many injured Afghanistan veterans there are?

[Guest Derek L]

Yes minimizing ... and misleading.

I'm sure you know what "class-action" means.

Do you know how many injured Afghanistan veterans there are?

A whole bunch.......How many are voicing their concern publicly over the new Veterans Charter? I count six named in the lawsuit from the OP……from a total of 190000 partaking under the new Charter……

[jacee]

A whole bunch.......How many are voicing their concern publicly over the new Veterans Charter? I count six named in the lawsuit from the OPfrom a total of 190000 partaking under the new Charter

To repeat what you are evading, minimizing: If the suit is certified, all of the injured vets can be part of it.

[Guest Derek L]

To repeat what you are evading, minimizing: If the suit is certified, all of the injured vets can be part of it.

And you have evidence that Vets are waiting for it to be certified?.....as I said, let me know when just 1% of the 190000+ Vets that have partook in the new Charter jump aboard this legal action......

[jacee]

And you have evidence that Vets are waiting for it to be certified?.....as I said, let me know when just 1% of the 190000+ Vets that have partook in the new Charter jump aboard this legal action......

Injured vets Derek. How many were injured?

[Guest Derek L]

Injured vets Derek. How many were injured?

If you include pre-deployment training accidents, the figure must be approaching ~2000.…What’s your point?

[jacee]

If you include pre-deployment training accidents, the figure must be approaching ~2000.Whats your point?

Because that's how many will be able to opt in to the class action lawsuit if certified.

Only injured vets, not all 190,000 vets.

[Guest Derek L]

Because that's how many will be able to opt in to the class action lawsuit if certified.

Only injured vets, not all 190,000 vets.

Why only injured vets?

None the less, start sensationalising it once 1% of ~2000 injured Afghan vets jump aboard.........

[jacee]

Why only injured vets?

None the less, start sensationalising it once 1% of ~2000 injured Afghan vets jump aboard.........

The op article, and the topic we've been discussing, is about a class action lawsuit by injured Afghanistan vets, challenging their benefits under the new veterans charter.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/veterans-group-urges-feds-to-retreat-from-request-to-drop-class-action-1.1389960

the court action filed by injured Afghan veterans ...

...

In all cases, the awards are substantially less than what service members would have received under the old Pension Act system, which was initially set up following the First World War.

...

He said he receives calls almost daily from soldiers affected by the changes, and thousands ultimately could be involved.

Sorochan, who is handling the case for free, said he doesn't believe the objective of the legislation was to save money at the expense of injured soldiers, but that's what has happened.

Edited August 7, 2013 by jacee

[Wilber]

You think you need to be a saavy investor to turn 300k into 800k in 50 years..? You could just buy etfs for the s&p500 and tsx60 and maybe throw in a fixed income etf and you'd make about 10000/yr in dividends/interest, and likely have 5-10% annual capital appreciation. You could be a millionaire making 30k/yr on dividends and interest by the time you're 40-50.

Wow, I never knew it was that simple. If you just buy ETF's, many of the stocks in them don't pay dividends and others pay much lower than 3% so you are not likely to average 3% in dividend income. I know none of my ETF's have, that is why most of my market exposure is in individual stocks. If you just go for high dividend good quality stocks, you are going to pay a premium for them these days because with interest rates so low, that is what everyone else is looking for as well. If interest rates go up, the value of these stocks will fall or at least stagnate and you can kiss your 5-10% annual capital gain goodbye for some time. Not very long ago, all my stock portfolio was in dividend paying stocks but recently I have started to buy some non dividend stocks in search of capital gains, because good dividend stocks have become overpriced. Same goes for good pref shares. Many good ones are trading at or above their redemption value. So yes, you do need to be somewhat savvy or at least get good advice and follow it. You will also have to endure some dry spells. You can't grow capital and spend it at the same time.

As far as vet benefits go, it's a bit difficult to be clear on what they get. I could be wrong but the way I read it, the only choice I see, is between a lump some and being paid in installments when it comes to the disability award, the total benefit is the same. Income protection only applies while the vet is in rehab and the disability pension only goes till he is 65. Once he hits 65, if he hasn't served long enough to get a military pension and worked long enough to qualify for CPP, he will be stuck with trying to live on OAP and whatever he has left from his disability award. This differs from previous vets who received all their benefits till death.