ONTARIO

[daniel]

He cut taxes, to kick start the economy. Without the tax cuts, the economy wouldn't have done so well.

In 1994, the economy was growing at 5% before the high taxes, high interest rates and bg defeicit, slowed it to 2%.

In 1996, the economy was increasng at more than 5% per year.

He didn't need to. The economy was already growing, thanks to NDP initiatives that navigated Ontario out of the recession and policies that kick-started the economy.

By the time Harris took over, Chretien was the PM, Clinton was the President and interest rates and inflation was falling.

So what did Harris do? D*k all except decimate the infrastructure.

[Big Blue Machine]

The NDP would have kept the taxes high anyway, if the economy was growing. If the taxes were higher, people wouldn't have spend like they did. With the tax cuts, there was more growth in the economy.

[daniel]

The NDP would have kept the taxes high anyway, if the economy was growing. If the taxes were higher, people wouldn't have spend like they did. With the tax cuts, there was more growth in the economy.

That can only mean we should give the NDP more credit than what you are willing to admit because if Harris took a growing economy started by Rae and accelerated it with his policies, Rae took a recession created by Mulroney and turned it around.

Since the world was already going into a recession, the Mulroney FTA accelerated the decline in the Canadian economy. The recession wouldn't have been so bad without the FTA.

So you point out that Rae kept taxes high but Harris cut taxes. What do you expect a government to do in a recession, cut taxes, budgets and lay people off? Rae saved plant closures and jobs, something that Harris wouldn't acknowledge because he would rather lay people off.

[Big Blue Machine]

I bet you fifty dollars and a box of doughnuts if you took a poll in Ontario, on who was the better premier of the two. Harris would win, by 5% at least.

[daniel]

You think I'm stupid enough to trust a Common Sense Revolutionary to follow through?

Why do you think Harris quit at mid-term?

Why do you think Mulroney quit at mid-term?

[Big Blue Machine]

Mulroney didn't quit at mid term, he quit in 93. the maximum limit of his term.

Harris got tired.

[takeanumber]

He cut taxes, to kick start the economy. Without the tax cuts, the economy wouldn't have done so well.

When Mulroney is in power, and the economy tanks, it's the fault of the global economy.

When Harris is in power, and the economy booms, it's not the global economy, it's the tax cuts.

There's also a massive fault in your logic. (this is why conservatives who know squat about economics really should keep their mouths shut)

When you cut government spending, you're in fact hurting the growth.

When you cut deficit spending, you're in fact slowing the growth of the economy in the SHORT term.

When you cut taxes, depending on how large the multiplyer is, you're improving growth in the economy.

These are fundamental macroeconomic laws. If you don't buy them, you need to go have a chat with the pacos at the DoF, cos this is what they use.

Now: if you're cutting the deficit, while cutting spending, but reducing taxes not as much as you are spending, then pure economic logic suggests that the economy is in fact slowing in the short term.

In other words: Harris had nothing to do with the 1995 bounceback. Moreover, he had nothign to do with the 1998 recovery after the Baht crisis.

However, I'll tell you what he was responsible for:

He was responsible for weakening CRITICAL institutions that could not cope with the crisis', or even ROUTINE problems that they were supposed to handle.

Walkerton.

SARS.

And you havn't even seen the long term consequences in other areas yet.

Enjoy your tax cuts.

They were financed by the deaths they caused.

[daniel]

The world economy is dragging along, not great. Since the government in power in the US is a Republican, the economy must be attributed to the world.

In Canada we have a Liberal government. The driving force of Canadian business is Ontario, with also a Liberal government. The business centre of Ontario is Toronto, with - gasp a left leaning socialist. And we all know that socialist governments are responsible for poor world economic performance.

The biggest thing that David Miller had done (and thus prevented the creation of a few jobs) is the cancelation of the Toronto Island Airport bridge.

So, the poor performance of the US economy can only be attributed to the cancelation of the Toronto Island Airport Bridge.

And in the end, without crediting Bush to the economy, what else did he do? D*k all.

[Big Blue Machine]

The only reason the NDP won in Ontario in 1990, was because the people had no other party to vote for. People didn't likethe Liberals, and they didn't know anything abou the Conservatives. Mike Harris had just been elected leader a few months before. ANd he didn't have much of a message.

I'm sure that Ontario will never elect a NDP majority government again. Which is good.

[takeanumber]

How quickly the topic changes.

How quickly the conservatives retreat in the face of economic reason.

[Big Blue Machine]

Being Conservative is like being an economist.

[takeanumber]

If by 'Is Like' mean "Is like being a bad", then you're right.

[Big Blue Machine]

Ha Ha NO

[JWayne625]

Ontario's rookie Liberal government deserves a grade of "B" after its first full year on the job, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Monday.

That's pretty bold of McGuinty, It's scary when a leader has an ego that large. Instead of patting himself on the back, maybe he should let the voter's speak if he thinks he's that good.

[takeanumber]

Only a conservative would think that a 'B' is a good grade.

[daniel]

Compared to the turmoil and unrest during Harris' first year, I'd settle for Dalton.

[Big Blue Machine]

Ya, but that's just you

[daniel]

Yes, of course. And you speak for how many Ontarians?

[Big Blue Machine]

The rest of Ontario

[daniel]

The rest of Ontario

OOOH Wow you represent everybody in Ontario eh? Then explain why you put Dalton and rejected the CSR?

[Big Blue Machine]

Because Dalton didn't want to kicked out as Liberal leader

[takeanumber]

Big Blue Machine is still smarting from the decline of the Orangemen.

Your kind is going extinct Big Blue Machine.

Good ridance.

[Big Blue Machine]

My kind isn't going extinct. Maybe yours is.

[HybridConservative]

Though I dont agree with my fellow conservative here (about Harris--the man was a twit) I dont think Dalton is THAT much better. They're ALL politicians--they're out for #1 and the goals of #1. Its like saying "I'd rather have Clinton over Bush"...

... sorry that makes me laugh to this day.

As another Ontarian, I dont believe EITHER would be better than the other. Daltons just gonna impose new crap to this province that Harris didnt get around to.

Remember--conservative is a political ideology. Just because some politicians call themselves by that term...doesnt mean they're actually out to promote those values.

*cough* :angry: Harris :angry: *cough*.

[Big Blue Machine]

For an extremely conservative person, I thought you would like Harris better than Dalton.