Windsor stops fluoridation of water.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2013/01/29/wdr-fluoride-windsor-water.html

Windsor's water will no longer have fluoride added to it.

Council made that decision late Monday last night after a marathon meeting to deal with this issue at a special meeting.

Approximately 30 delegations addressed council at a meeting that lasted six hours.

The advice from multiple dentists and doctors, including the President of the Ontario Dental Association and Windsor's medical officer of health was to keep fluoridating the water.

There are different types of fluoride. The one specifically in the water supply is called hexafluorosilicic acid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexafluorosilicic_acid

Hexafluorosilicic acid is also commonly used for water fluoridation in several countries including the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Republic of Ireland. In the U.S., about 40,000 tons of fluorosilic acid is recovered from phosphoric acid plants, and then used primarily in water fluoridation, sometimes after being processed into sodium silicofluoride.^[3] In this application, the hexafluorosilicic acid converts to the fluoride ion (F^-), which is the active agent for the protection of teeth.

Now it has a health effect of 3 on the MSDS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFPA_704

3. Short exposure could cause serious temporary or moderate residual injury.

This follows Calgary or Edmonton which voted to stop fluoridation of the water. I for one, hope this trend continues.

Here is a good document talking about the health effects of hexafluorosilicic acid. Worth the read. This study was done in 2011.

http://www.enviro.ie/correspondence/Hexafluorosilicic%20Acid%20as%20an%20ingredident%20in%20Fluoridation%20of%20Drinking%20Water_WAUGH_2012.pdf

Some concerns in other places regarding this type of fluoridation. This is from 2002, but studies about the health effects and other interactions within the body and environment have not been performed by 2002.

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/Meetings/2002/Pettit_091802_oral.pdf

These chemicals have permeated our nation's foodstuffs and drinks so our exposure is not limited merely to drinking tap water.

Because most of our processed foods are produced In America's large cities, and most large cities are fluoridated, virtually all processed foods are now contaminated with silicofluorides as well as other fluorides from pesticide residue. Some of these foods have fluoride levels higher than is allowed in public water supplies. Yet, no one knows the average level of Ingestion and NO STUDIES HAVE EVER PROVEN SILICOFLUORIDES SAFE TO INGEST (1).

This is very much the case. You drink it, you cook with it, you bathe in it, you water your lawn with it, you give it to your pets. Any food production site in a city uses the fluoridated water so even if you don't drink the water you are still getting it in the food you eat.

I think this is a good trend to reverse the decision to use this type of fluoride in our water supplies. Hope to see more of this.

The thing about fluoridation when it comes to teeth is that it is a topical application. Brushing your teeth with a proper toothpaste should be all you need to prevent tooth decay. This is the only substance in which the masses are medicated without their consent and full knowledge of the health risks associated with this specific type of water fluoridation. Ingesting this stuff does not help the teeth. Even your dentist will tell you not to swallow the fluoride when you get the treatment done at the

So how much hexafluorosilicic acid are you actually ingesting on a day to day basis? How far above the acceptable limit are we actually ingesting? What are the long term health effects?

[Boges]

Windsor Dentists rejoice.

[cybercoma]

I lived in Windsor for 25 years. I'm not sure you could make the teeth there much worse.

[segnosaur]

Now it has a health effect of 3 on the MSDS.

You might not understand this concept, but when dealing with hazardous chemicals, there is often a concept called 'dosage'.

Yes, going swimming in a vat of hexaflurosilic acid is dangerous. But at the concentrations you will be exposed to in drinking water is far below that which would be considered risky.

Here is a good document talking about the health effects of hexafluorosilicic acid. Worth the read. This study was done in 2011.

http://www.enviro.ie..._WAUGH_2012.pdf

Wow.... just, wow.

Who wrote that review? Someone named Delcan Waugh. Who actually owns the 'enviro.ie' web site? Same guy... Delcan Waugh.

Industrious guy that Waugh... both writes reviews and sets up web sites to hold that information. However, that doesn't make his views legitimate. It just means that he has $100 to buy a web domain and pay a company to host his data.

http://whois.domaintools.com/enviro.ie

Some concerns in other places regarding this type of fluoridation. This is from 2002, but studies about the health effects and other interactions within the body and environment have not been performed by 2002.http://ntp.niehs.nih...091802_oral.pdf

Another very questionable source...

While this "study" appears on a government web site, it was not done by government scientists. It wasn't done by scientists at all. Instead, it was a submission to the "National Toxicology Program", by someone named Janet Reed Pettit, who stated right at the top she was "a citizen of unimpressive credentials". I could find no indication that this individual has any sort of knowledge of science whatsoever, and didn't just cherry-pick random quotes from various anti-fluoridation sources.

The thing about fluoridation when it comes to teeth is that it is a topical application.

Unless people are taking in water through Osmosis through the skin, I'm pretty sure that whatever drinking water you ingest will probably come into contact with your teeth at some point.

Brushing your teeth with a proper toothpaste should be all you need to prevent tooth decay.

Possibly.

The problem is... not everyone does brush (or at least not as often as they should). And at least some that brush may not be using flouride toothpaste. Sadly, many of the people who don't brush properly are often poor. Some can end up with serious dental problems (which, of course, can cost our health care system.)

This is the only substance in which the masses are medicated without their consent...

Yes they are.

Now, whether the good of better dental health outweighs the almost purely psychological aspects of "OMG! I'm being medicated without consent" is up for debate.

Ingesting this stuff does not help the teeth.

Real scientists (i.e. not some no-name citizen, or some goofball who writes his own reports on his own website) hold differing opinions.

http://www.ada.org/sections/newsAndEvents/pdfs/fluoridation_facts.pdf

Even your dentist will tell you not to swallow the fluoride when you get the treatment done...

Again, dosage is everything.

The concentration of fluoride in the substances used by dentists range from 9000 PPM up to 22,500 PPM. (See: http://www.aapd.org/media/Policies_Guidelines/G_fluoridetherapy.pdf). Water fluoridation is typically in the 1PPM range.

In other words, the fluoride treatment you get at your dentist can be tens of thousands of times stronger than what you get in drinking water.

Oh, by the way, here's something to consider: They did a study in South Africa, where they compared children who drank Fluoridated tap water with those who drank bottled water without fluoridation. Result? Those who drank the bottled water had 52% more cavities than those who drank fluoridated water.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/17/AR2011011702905.html

[cybercoma]

Also, if you knew where Windsor's drinking water came from, you'd also know that fluoride should be the least of their worries.

[guyser]

Also, if you knew where Windsor's drinking water came from, you'd also know that fluoride should be the least of their worries.

The Detroit River and tributaries. I suspect it is quite clean when finally delivered. Could it be any worse , PR wise that is, than Hamiltons?

Its funny, but I drink a ton of Toronto tap water and never have an issue. The only time I went woah was when he had that really hot summer and by mid-august some of the water had that musty smell to it but you could not taste it.

Edited January 31, 2013 by guyser

[Guest Derek L]

Beautiful……clearly the folks in Windsor have run out the commies…

Edited February 1, 2013 by Derek L

[Guest Manny]

<Content deleted by Manny>

Edited April 4, 2013 by Manny

[Guest Derek L]

Yeah I heard that fluoride can make kids go retarded.

I don’t know about that……….. But my wife’s (Orthodontist) clinic doesn’t use fluoride (Or Mercury) and aside from natural levels, Vancouver/GVRD’s water doesn’t have fluoride added either………..

[GostHacked]

Yeah I heard that fluoride can make kids go retarded.

Yup. But the article needs to be specific that it is the hexaflurosilicic acid.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/

July 25, 2012 — For years health experts have been unable to agree on whether fluoride in the drinking water may be toxic to the developing human brain. Extremely high levels of fluoride are known to cause neurotoxicity in adults, and negative impacts on memory and learning have been reported in rodent studies, but little is known about the substance’s impact on children’s neurodevelopment. In a meta-analysis, researchers from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) and China Medical University in Shenyang for the first time combined 27 studies and found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children. Based on the findings, the authors say that this risk should not be ignored, and that more research on fluoride’s impact on the developing brain is warranted.

[segnosaur]

re: Fluoride affecting intelligence...

Yup. But the article needs to be specific that it is the hexaflurosilicic acid.

http://www.hsph.harv...grandjean-choi/

The other thing you seem to be overlooking is that the bulk of the data used in that study came from China, where fluoride levels are much higher than here in North America.

From: http://www.kansas.com/2012/09/11/2485561/harvard-scientists-data-on-fluoride.html

Two of the scientists who compiled the Harvard study on fluoride said it really doesn’t address the safety of fluoridation levels typical of American drinking water. “These results do not allow us to make any judgment regarding possible levels of risk at levels of exposure typical for water fluoridation in the U.S."

...

Larry Hund, a pediatrician and leader in the pro-fluoride group Wichitans for Healthy Teeth, said he had taken the Harvard study with a grain of salt even before the researchers acknowledged that it didn’t address American fluoridated water. “They’re looking at fluoride levels 10 times what we see here in the U.S.,” he said. In addition, he pointed out that most of the studies were done in China and didn’t account for other factors that can influence IQ scores such as poverty, exposure to heavy metal pollution and dietary deficiencies.

So, again, dosage is everything.

It should also be noted that many of the studies used in the paper were incomplete.

Oh, and then there's this:

...the researchers also found the IQ differential didn’t appear to last to adulthood.“The IQs of adults in the area were also measured and the intellectual ability and even life expectancy of people in the (high-fluoride) endemic region appeared to be higher than the non-endemic region...

So, adding fluoride might actually make people smarter and live longer in the long run.

[GostHacked]

The other thing you seem to be overlooking is that the bulk of the data used in that study came from China, where fluoride levels are much higher than here in North America.

The main thing many are overlooking is that this fluoride that is in the water is not the same type as in toothpaste or the stuff you get at the dentist.

Hexafluorosilicic acid is what goes into the water. You drink it, you cook with it, you bathe in it, food and beverages contain it. In my view with all that into account, you are getting more than the acceptable daily dose.

[segnosaur]

The main thing many are overlooking is that this fluoride that is in the water is not the same type as in toothpaste or the stuff you get at the dentist.

Hexafluorosilicic acid is what goes into the water.

Not exactly correct... Different municipalities use different fluoride compounds in their water. Many use hexafluorosilicic acid, some use Sodium Fluoride or other compounds. Likewise the chemicals used by your dentist or toothpaste manufacturer can vary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation#Implementation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothpaste#Fluorides

Of course, all that is irrelevant, because none of the Fluoride compounds currently used have solid evidence suggesting that there are significant health problems associated with their use.

You drink it, you cook with it, you bathe in it, food and beverages contain it.

Yes, and so?

In my view with all that into account, you are getting more than the acceptable daily dose.

I think the most important part of that above sentence is "my view".

I hope you recognize that it is just a very uninformed opinion, with no solid science behind it.

All you've seem to have done is refer to:

- People who are completely unqualified to comment on the issue (such as the person you referenced who said they had "unimpressive credentials" but then went on to write about the evils of fluoridation)

- Lots of irrelevancies and downright bad science

- Studies that are irrelevant because they aren't dealing with water fluoridation (like the study you referenced that dealt with levels far and above what are used in Canada.)

On the other hand, those in favor of fluoridation can point to peer reviewed studies by experts in the field to support their views.