The Roma are coming, the Gypsies are coming!

[guyser]

A good question! My first response was "Who says we have to be fair?"

The process should be fair, the results not necessarily so.

We let criminals from Jamaica and other countries in with such problems all the time.

If we do, and its my assertion we do not, can you provide some link to show same?

If they have been criminally rehabbed for a felony, + 5 yrs has passed, then they can submit an application for Criminal Rehabilitation , then after that (if green lighted) they can re-apply to be an immigrant.

A very diffulcult process from what I understand.

[Guest Peeves]

Time to change who gets in here just likewhen the libs changed it.

It is being changed and tightened up. That's why the excessive Roma fraud cases were pointed out...examples.

I can't understand how some filing for immigration that were kicked out of Australia managed legal entry to Canada.

Canada needs the same type of immigrant/refugee laws as recently implemented in other democratic countries otherwise we will continue to be considered open to fraud, criminals and draft dodgers.

[Guest Peeves]

The process should be fair, the results not necessarily so.

If we do, and its my assertion we do not, can you provide some link to show same?

If they have been criminally rehabbed for a felony, + 5 yrs has passed, then they can submit an application for Criminal Rehabilitation , then after that (if green lighted) they can re-apply to be an immigrant.

A very diffulcult process from what I understand.

I posted examples of criminals and terrorists being accepted and still appealing deportation sometimes up to 20 years. Now if we are expected to regugitate facts every time the subject comes up it ain't gonna happen.

I say, from what I have read, that it's my position that criminals haver been allowed in by previous governments and so have terrorists and war criminals. If they haven't, prove my position is not factual.

[guyser]

Canada needs the same type of immigrant/refugee laws as recently implemented in other democratic countries otherwise we will continue to be considered open to fraud, criminals and draft dodgers.

Such as?

Which ones?

Water is wet, once again

[guyser]

I posted examples of criminals and terrorists being accepted and still appealing deportation sometimes up to 20 years. Now if we are expected to regugitate facts every time the subject comes up it ain't gonna happen.

Ohhh.....20 yrs ago.

Right,

I say, from what I have read, that it's my position that criminals haver been allowed in by previous governments and so have terrorists and war criminals. If they haven't, prove my position is not factual.

Not a chance. Wild Bill said it, he can show us.

And you can continue to whine.

http://www.cic.gc.ca...ility/index.asp

People lie too! Can you believe that? Lying on an application that yhou didnt commit war crimes. Shocking!

Edited October 29, 2012 by guyser

[Michael Hardner]

Who said they were? If One poster did, don't blame the rest or you are doing exactly the same.

Unfortunately this happens all the time on both sides.

If a post is made on terrorist Islamists, it's ABOUT THE TERRORIST ISLAMISTS not claiming another billion Muslims are Islamists.

The problem I see is that people post about Islamists in immigration threads, so what are we to think ?

[Guest Peeves]

Unfortunately this happens all the time on both sides.

The problem I see is that people post about Islamists in immigration threads, so what are we to think ?

You want a rubric of Islamists,Terrorists, Or Refugee/immigration?

Great, get us one. While your at it, bring me a beer too.

Certainly if an honor killing is committed by an immigrant/refugee or a crime is committed by a poseur refugee claimant, where would you, in all seriousness, place it? Oh. You wouldn't post it Huh? Why not.

All the same, jumping to, or entering into a bigoted-racist accusatory name calling because F-A_C_T_S_ are posted does not excuse the violator, nor is it good manners.

And the bull puckey is just that. You know as well as I that those choosing to be confrontational and disingenuous would do so where ever a post on such subject was pasted.

If I post something for debate, are you actually suggesting that WHERE I post it will make a difference? Those (few) wishing to stretch the subject well beyond the subject will regardless. Like the scorpion, it's just their nature.

[Guest Peeves]

Ohhh.....20 yrs ago.

Nope within the month....

Right,

Not a chance. Wild Bill said it, he can show us.

And you can continue to whine.

If you call that whining, if that's your grown up attitude, you have no business being on a forum for adults.

http://www.cic.gc.ca...ility/index.asp

People lie too! Can you believe that? Lying on an application that yhou didnt commit war crimes. Shocking!

If they lie they get booted out.

[Michael Hardner]

Certainly if an honor killing is committed by an immigrant/refugee or a crime is committed by a poseur refugee claimant, where would you, in all seriousness, place it? Oh. You wouldn't post it Huh? Why not.

Maybe because there's nothing much to discuss about that. We don't usually post about crimes in here and when we do... well... what is there to be said ?

All the same, jumping to, or entering into a bigoted-racist accusatory name calling because F-A_C_T_S_ are posted does not excuse the violator, nor is it good manners.

I have reported people for accusations of racism where there is no basis for it. From a previous post by you, though, it seems that one can legitimately point out a racist statement, within the rules.

If I post something for debate, are you actually suggesting that WHERE I post it will make a difference? Those (few) wishing to stretch the subject well beyond the subject will regardless. Like the scorpion, it's just their nature.

Yes. For example if the thread is already about immigration and you post about a crime by an immigrant what else am I supposed to conclude ?

[Wild Bill]

The process should be fair, the results not necessarily so.

If we do, and its my assertion we do not, can you provide some link to show same?

If they have been criminally rehabbed for a felony, + 5 yrs has passed, then they can submit an application for Criminal Rehabilitation , then after that (if green lighted) they can re-apply to be an immigrant.

A very diffulcult process from what I understand.

Here we go! From a simple google:

Let's start with an official warning when visiting Jamaica from the Gov't of Canada:

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/report_rapport-eng.asp?id=138000

"amaica Exercise normal security precautions Exercise high degree of caution Avoid non-essential travel Avoid all travel

There is a relatively high level of violent crime and murder mainly related to gang activity and reprisal killings in inner-city communities. In the Kingston and St. Andrew Corporate Area, the communities of Waterhouse, Drewsland, Grants Pen, Cassava Piece, Rockfort and Downtown/Central Kingston have seen significant upsurges of violence. Police may impose curfews with short notice in areas where flare-ups have occurred. Travellers are advised to listen to media reports and follow the advice of local police and military officers.

http://www.caribbean360.com/index.php/news/19004.html#axzz2AhfqYazW

"TORONTO, Canada, Wednesday May 5, 2010 – Members of a Jamaican organised criminal gang accused of providing guns and drugs that fuel gang wars in Toronto, Canada were among 78 people held by police on Monday after an eight-month investigation.

The men from the Shower Posse, which originated in the western Kingston community of Tivoli Gardens, and members of other gangs were held in a sweep that involved 1,000 officers who conducted 105 simultaneous searches in the Greater Toronto Area and as far as Ottawa."

Here's another on the Shower Posse, illustrating their size and extent"

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/05/05/police-raids-reveal-links-to-powerful-jamaican-shower-posse-gang/

"

A ruthless Jamaican criminal organization with links to the country’s ruling political party is the same group Toronto police allege supplies weapons to and controls the street gangs targeted in Tuesday’s province-wide, early-morning raids.

The Shower Posse, which the U.S. government says holds influence with Jamaica’s governing Labour Party and is responsible for more than 1,400 drug-related killings, is an international organized crime syndicate that police say funnelled drugs through the Caribbean to GTA street-level gangs such as the Falstaff Crips and the Five Point Generals.On Tuesday morning, more than 1,000 police officers from forces across Ontario executed 105 search warrants in the GTA and Ottawa, resulting in 79 arrests and the seizure of $30,000 in cash, $10,500 in casino cheques, 19 firearms, diamonds, cocaine, body armour, vehicles and more than 10,000 ecstasy pills."

Obviously, the problem is real. We can quibble about the whys and wherefors but not the fact that it exists.

[guyser]

Here we go! From a simple google:

Let's start with an official warning when visiting Jamaica from the Gov't of Canada:

What does a travel advisory have to do with immigrants coming into Canada and the criminality or not of same?

Nobody here denies that criminal elements exist in our applicants. The issue is are they convicted criminals, have they done their penance and enough time has lapsed for them to re-apply?

We do not however invite criminals (felony convictions) to just up and apply.

[Wild Bill]

What does a travel advisory have to do with immigrants coming into Canada and the criminality or not of same?

Nobody here denies that criminal elements exist in our applicants. The issue is are they convicted criminals, have they done their penance and enough time has lapsed for them to re-apply?

We do not however invite criminals (felony convictions) to just up and apply.

Sorry! Grabbed your post to reply with by mistake. I was replying to the premise that there IS no problem with many Jamaican immigrants, particularly those from one area of the island.

As for allowing criminals into Canada, I believe on of those links points out that we do that very thing, then fight with them for 10 or 20 years before we can deport them.

The issue of deportation and all the problems trying to get rid not just of criminals but those who lied on their applications is worth a whole thread in itself!

[Argus]

Ok, so it's technically incorrect to call such statements racist.

Got it.

From that dismissive reply I'm getting the impression you don't really care whether you're using the proper term or not, you just like using the term...

[Michael Hardner]

I don't think it's that important which term you use.

The point us that there is poor logic behind most of the assertions IMO, so I don't think we are ready to discuss this ...

[Bonam]

I don't think it's that important which term you use.

The point us that there is poor logic behind most of the assertions IMO, so I don't think we are ready to discuss this ...

If you're gonna call someone a racist, it certainly is important which term you use. "You're a racist!" is a very different statement from "Your logic is lacking!" Unfortunately, some on this forum cover their ears and yell racist at the very first sign of political incorrectness.