Wild Bill Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Well that's just silly. Is it, CC? I'm not saying I don't forgive, I just don't forget! A party's culture can give it a disposition towards repeating mistakes. I do understand that changes DO occur! I just don't accept "marketing" claims without wanting to see some proof. I've become very leery about "hype" over the years. Whatever, I still think that it is more positive to be realistic and accept that there is no perfect choice than to have blind faith when it comes time to vote! I could see myself voting Liberal or even NDP if things changed someday. I get the sense from many NDP supporters here on MLW that they could never do the same as far as voting Tory! To them, it is more a religious situation. They could not vote for someone not in their church! No need for facts and discussion - being a heretic is enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Is it, CC? I'm not saying I don't forgive, I just don't forget! A party's culture can give it a disposition towards repeating mistakes. I do understand that changes DO occur! I just don't accept "marketing" claims without wanting to see some proof. I've become very leery about "hype" over the years. Whatever, I still think that it is more positive to be realistic and accept that there is no perfect choice than to have blind faith when it comes time to vote! I could see myself voting Liberal or even NDP if things changed someday. I get the sense from many NDP supporters here on MLW that they could never do the same as far as voting Tory! To them, it is more a religious situation. They could not vote for someone not in their church! No need for facts and discussion - being a heretic is enough! Really? I voted for the Right in 2006 because I felt they were best situated to bring openness, transparency, and accountability to Parliament. They've failed miserably. My political stripes have changed though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Really? I voted for the Right in 2006 because I felt they were best situated to bring openness, transparency, and accountability to Parliament. They've failed miserably. My political stripes have changed though. Yeah, but you are the exception, I believe Sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Not to mention how he withheld the protection of the Law from the citizens of Caledonia...for political expediency. This is why I can't believe that people in Ontario voted for this man. Very parochial thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Yeah, but you are the exception, I believe Sir! You might be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Spoiling your ballot is a perfectly legitimate protest. It means as much as your one little vote for a particular candidate. I wish people would do it more if they really feel none of the candidates merits their votes. Certainly more effective than just staying home. I'l admit I've never done it myself, because often I vote against somebody as much as for anybody, ie strategic voting, other times I voted for a smaller party to give them the buck eighty they used to get per vote. With the CPC having eliminated that, maybe I'll be more likely to spoil my ballot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 This is why I can't believe that people in Ontario voted for this man. Very parochial thinking. Look at his name......and then look at the demographics of his riding. Your answer , in part , lies there. Give him a Toronto or London riding, and he would be begging any police service to hire him. The man is a complete narcissist, hates success in others, and is a political flop in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I've been a scrutineer before. I know what a spoiled ballot means - squat! No one cares! Sure such votes are tallied but the numbers are very small. It's really just an ego thing for whoever is doing the spoiling. NO ONE cares in the slightest! Not being a drama queen myself, I would never bother doing such a thing. The sad reality is that the ONLY thing that has any chance of change is actually voting! The chance may be vanishingly small but everything else has a chance of ZERO! Using that criteria, every vote cast for a candidate that didn't win means squat. A spoiled ballot is a message to all candidates that here is a vote they didn't get, cast by someone who cares enough to vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Using that criteria, every vote cast for a candidate that didn't win means squat. A spoiled ballot is a message to all candidates that here is a vote they didn't get, cast by someone who cares enough to vote. You are right in theory, Wilbur. It's just that in the real world, the number of spoiled ballots is still mice nuts against the totals! Politicians are very pragmatic beasts. All they care about is whether they win or they lose! Do you really think that in a riding where perhaps the total votes amounted to several hundred thousand the winner OR the loser stayed up all night because 12 of the votes cast were spoiled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 You are right in theory, Wilbur. It's just that in the real world, the number of spoiled ballots is still mice nuts against the totals! Politicians are very pragmatic beasts. All they care about is whether they win or they lose! Do you really think that in a riding where perhaps the total votes amounted to several hundred thousand the winner OR the loser stayed up all night because 12 of the votes cast were spoiled? In the scheme of things political a spoiled ballot stinks unless there are thousands of them. I doubt seriously if ANY candidate EVER asks the question...? How many spoiled ballots were there? Now I certainly respect those that follow that course on their own conviction. Good for them certainly, but as an effective point to be made, not hardly. Now, perhaps some sign on a lawn alternatively, (or an organized group?), might draw the medias attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 You might be right. Well... certainly not left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 You are right in theory, Wilbur. It's just that in the real world, the number of spoiled ballots is still mice nuts against the totals! Politicians are very pragmatic beasts. All they care about is whether they win or they lose! Do you really think that in a riding where perhaps the total votes amounted to several hundred thousand the winner OR the loser stayed up all night because 12 of the votes cast were spoiled? A looser might if they lost by less than 12 votes. According to you, the only votes that count are those cast for the winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 A looser might if they lost by less than 12 votes. According to you, the only votes that count are those cast for the winner. How often does that happen? If you think long enough you can make a long shot scenario about anything. Besides, it doesn't matter! Politicians DON'T care! Period and end of story! You can stretch things as much as you like to try to make your POV realistic but it's a waste of time. They just don't! Get over it and deal with the real world! As I said, spoiling your ballot is just being a drama queen. It's an ego stroke to make you think you are somehow important, just because you commit an irrelevant act! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 [T]his man is a criminal and should be incarcerated. One is entitled to an opinion about a person. But isn't making the above kind of unbased statement just slander? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 How often does that happen? If you think long enough you can make a long shot scenario about anything. More often than you think. Ujjal Dosanjh won by only 22 votes in the last federal election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 More often than you think. Ujjal Dosanjh won by only 22 votes in the last federal election. 301 ridings, with an election every 4 years, on the average? I never said it didn't happen. I just said it didn't happen very often. You ignored my point that politicians STILL don't care anyway! How about I agree that technically you are correct, in a nitpicking, anal-retentive, matters less than mice nuts way in the real world? I still maintain it's just a pointless thing to make drama queens feel self-important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 301 ridings, with an election every 4 years, on the average? I never said it didn't happen. I just said it didn't happen very often. You ignored my point that politicians STILL don't care anyway! How about I agree that technically you are correct, in a nitpicking, anal-retentive, matters less than mice nuts way in the real world? I still maintain it's just a pointless thing to make drama queens feel self-important. They would care if there were enough of them. They need votes to win. Do you think voting for someone you don't approve of is more appropriate or would it be better to stay away all together? If a candidate you do support has no chance, should you not vote for them or just stay home because after all, according to you it is a wasted vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) One is entitled to an opinion about a person. But isn't making the above kind of unbased statement just slander? It's certainly over the top. I'd sue. Unless proven. Edited July 11, 2012 by Peeves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 They would care if there were enough of them. They need votes to win. Do you think voting for someone you don't approve of is more appropriate or would it be better to stay away all together? If a candidate you do support has no chance, should you not vote for them or just stay home because after all, according to you it is a wasted vote? "They would care if there were enough of them." And if my granny had wheels she wouldn't bump her ass when she hopped! How's that for mixing metaphors? "Do you think voting for someone you don't approve of is more appropriate or would it be better to stay away all together? " Unlike you, I don't expect or believe in perfect choices. I have never yet seen a party or candidate who 100% matched my own values. I don't think it realistic to expect such! So it is ALWAYS a choice of trying to find the best of an imperfect bunch. As for staying away altogether, I don't disagree that may make you feel better. If something or some one bothers you that much I can understand not wanting to have anything to do with them. I just don't believe that the rest of the world gives a damn what you do! So it is a valid personal choice but an insignificant statement. "If a candidate you do support has no chance, should you not vote for them or just stay home because after all, according to you it is a wasted vote?" You changed my words here! I never said that it was a wasted vote to vote for someone with no chance! I said a spoiled ballot was a waste of time! Please don't cheat in your arguments! Voting for a candidate who is perceived to have no chance is a perfectly sensible thing. First off, who says they have no chance? Surprises do happen. Second, sometimes if you can make a good showing you put yourself in better shape for the next race! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) "They would care if there were enough of them." And if my granny had wheels she wouldn't bump her ass when she hopped! How's that for mixing metaphors? "Do you think voting for someone you don't approve of is more appropriate or would it be better to stay away all together? " Unlike you, I don't expect or believe in perfect choices. I have never yet seen a party or candidate who 100% matched my own values. I don't think it realistic to expect such! So it is ALWAYS a choice of trying to find the best of an imperfect bunch. As for staying away altogether, I don't disagree that may make you feel better. If something or some one bothers you that much I can understand not wanting to have anything to do with them. I just don't believe that the rest of the world gives a damn what you do! So it is a valid personal choice but an insignificant statement. "If a candidate you do support has no chance, should you not vote for them or just stay home because after all, according to you it is a wasted vote?" You changed my words here! I never said that it was a wasted vote to vote for someone with no chance! I said a spoiled ballot was a waste of time! Please don't cheat in your arguments! Voting for a candidate who is perceived to have no chance is a perfectly sensible thing. First off, who says they have no chance? Surprises do happen. Second, sometimes if you can make a good showing you put yourself in better shape for the next race! Who said I expect perfect choices? A spoiled ballot is an expression of a persons opinion whether you like it or not. Edited July 11, 2012 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 They would care if there were enough of them. They need votes to win. Do you think voting for someone you don't approve of is more appropriate or would it be better to stay away all together? If a candidate you do support has no chance, should you not vote for them or just stay home because after all, according to you it is a wasted vote? Can we have write in votes please? Then there might be a protest vote. Mickey Mouse gets 10% of ballots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Can we have write in votes please? Then there might be a protest vote. Mickey Mouse gets 10% of ballots Whatever. I just reject the notion that a person should be morally obliged to vote for one of the names on a ballot or not show up at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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