Our federal public sector workers are ill!

Topaz · June 23, 2012

I think its safe to say that ALL, private, federal and provincial workers, have the opportunity of abusing sick days, so its really unfair to point out one group and not compare it to the other two. I know many people who have abused the private sector over the years and the one item they have in common is STRESS and under these federal workers, many are going to lose their jobs now and down the road, so mental health really plays apart in this.

CPCFTW · June 23, 2012

There's some pretty weak arguments in here..

First of all, disability is cheaper than sick days. Also, disability is harder to abuse than sick days.

Disability is there for a reason. Is the best argument you socialists can come up with that we should give everyone ridiculous amounts of bankable sick days in case one of them happens to get extremely ill? Are public sector workers too good for the disability pay that the private sector that foots the bill for those bankable sick days has to accept?

What nonsense.

This is pretty simple. It is another case of public sector workers taking the taxpayer to the cleaners for benefits that don't exist in the private sector. It's just like defined benefit pension plans which are being slowly torn down. It is government elitism, plain and simple.

Without these ridiculous benefits, the government wouldn't have to lay anyone off. The potential cost savings are enormous. Let's hope something is done about these sick days... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edited June 23, 2012 by CPCFTW

Topaz · June 23, 2012

There another thing to consider here. The House has agreed to expand the House with more MP's, which I would think will create more work the for remaining fed. workers and so I can see the stress levels going up even further for those who become overworked.

CPCFTW · June 23, 2012

There another thing to consider here. The House has agreed to expand the House with more MP's, which I would think will create more work the for remaining fed. workers and so I can see the stress levels going up even further for those who become overworked.

Oh noes... better give them more sick days and perhaps some taxpayer funded backrubs! :lol:

BubberMiley · June 23, 2012

Are public sector workers too good for the disability pay that the private sector that foots the bill for those bankable sick days has to accept?

What nonsense.

Are private sector workers not good enough for the sick leave pay that the public sector gets?

I'd take it up with my employer if I were you. Better to bring the middle class up than down these days, don't you think?

CPCFTW · June 23, 2012

Are private sector workers not good enough for the sick leave pay that the public sector gets?

I'd take it up with my employer if I were you. Better to bring the middle class up than down these days, don't you think?

More nonsense.

Private sector workers are paid what their employers can afford. Bankable sick days and defined benefit pensions are simply not affordable in the private sector.

Public sector workers are paid whatever the elected government is willing to force the private sector to pay them in order to appease the public sector unions.

A manufactured public sector class is not a middle class. It is an elite class with benefits/compensation/job security that is almost unheard of among the unwashed non-elite masses who foot the bill.

Edited June 23, 2012 by CPCFTW

cybercoma · June 23, 2012

More nonsense.

Would you say it's "complete nonsense?"

punked · June 23, 2012

More nonsense.

Private sector workers are paid what their employers can afford. Bankable sick days and defined benefit pensions are simply not affordable in the private sector.

Public sector workers are paid whatever the elected government is willing to force the private sector to pay them in order to appease the public sector unions.

A manufactured public sector class is not a middle class. It is an elite class with benefits/compensation/job security that is almost unheard of among the unwashed non-elite masses who foot the bill.

You think Private sector workers are ALWAYS paid what their employers can afford do you? What a dumb statement. If that was true whenever the minimum wage was raised companies would go out of business. Not to mention that wages go up when their is a shortage in a field. Your arguments are ideologically based instead of fact based, and that is no way to run a country.

CPCFTW · June 23, 2012

You think Private sector workers are ALWAYS paid what their employers can afford do you? What a dumb statement. If that was true whenever the minimum wage was raised companies would go out of business.

Nope. But they're never paid more than the employers can afford (except when it results in bankruptcy) which is more than I can say for public sector workers.

Edited June 23, 2012 by CPCFTW

June 23, 2012

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/06/21/twice-as-many-sick-days-for-federal-workers-report-shows

I'm concerned.. Our federal employees (Gov workers) are taking 2x the amount of sick days (18 days on average per worker). We should find out why.

Would it be possible to pick the top 20 sick-day claimants and publicly ask them what ails them in an open forum? Or should we ask the same of the top 20 private workers as to why they are so healthy? It would be neat to correlate the numbers an reasons.

Suggestions? Comments? Are Unions impacting the health of the members?

A friend I'd played golf with worked at the same firm as a machinist, never

missed a day of work. He retired at 62. Worked there 44 years.

Of course he was working for a private industry, not the public sector, city, government, teacher, or cop,

Edited June 23, 2012 by Peeves

CPCFTW · June 23, 2012

A friend I'd played golf with worked at the same firm as a machinist, never

missed a day of work. He retired at 62. Worked there 44 years.

Of course he was working for a private industry, not the public sector, city, government, teacher, or cop,

But didn't he need a mental health day!?

Oh right.. That's what we in the private sector call the weekend. :lol:

That reminds me.. I'm pretty sure many public sector workers also get additional holidays such as personal development days and mental health days on top of these bankable sick days.. :rolleyes:

And don't get me started on teachers' summer vacation!

punked · June 23, 2012

Nope. But they're never paid more than the employers can afford (except when it results in bankruptcy) which is more than I can say for public sector workers.

Such a wrong statement.

punked · June 23, 2012

But didn't he need a mental health day!?

Oh right.. That's what we in the private sector call the weekend.

That reminds me.. I'm pretty sure many public sector workers also get additional holidays such as personal development days and mental health days on top of these bankable sick days..

And don't get me started on teachers' summer vacation!

Most teachers across Canada are not paid during the summer from their employer. They set aside an amount of pay through the year so that they are paid the same amount through out the year. So I wont get you started because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Edited June 23, 2012 by punked

BubberMiley · June 23, 2012

Twice as much as people with half the sick leave who have to go on disability sooner.

CPCFTW · June 23, 2012

Most teachers across Canada are not paid during the summer from their employer. They set aside an amount of pay through the year so that they are paid the same amount through out the year. So I wont get you started because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Except that they are paid an annual salary equivalent to what most make in a full year of work. An arts grad who went to teacher's college shouldn't start at 50k for 8 months (equivalent to 75k), plus benefits. There's no shortage of unemployed arts grads who will work for far less.

punked · June 23, 2012

Except that they are paid an annual salary equivalent to what most make in a full year of work. An arts grad who went to teacher's college shouldn't start at 50k for 8 months (equivalent to 75k), plus benefits. There's no shortage of unemployed arts grads who will work for far less.

But they aren't paid over the summer which was my point. If you think you can get a highly trained Math or Science teacher who will actually help our future by encouraging the R&D minds of tomorrow for less good on you. However when the math and Science scores drop in comparison to the rest of the world don't cry about it.

CPCFTW · June 23, 2012

But they aren't paid over the summer which was my point. If you think you can get a highly trained Math or Science teacher who will actually help our future by encouraging the R&D minds of tomorrow for less good on you. However when the math and Science scores drop in comparison to the rest of the world don't cry about it.

It's funny that you think they're highly trained.

punked · June 23, 2012

It's funny that you think they're highly trained.

Yah years of a bachelor in Science or Math if that is what they teach then teachers collage. I get it though you hate public education. Better take that up with your political party of choice because I have never heard them say that.

Fletch 27 · June 23, 2012

They are indeed highly trained! By their Union! How to strike, how to hold a picket, how to burn tax dollars, how to totally ignore the youth they are supposed to mentor.

My 2 buddies living to the left and right of me can attest to this. "Its all about the summers off".... Their wives are both grade school teachers... I'm putting mine in private school.. Brrrrrrrr

It's funny that you think they're highly trained.

punked · June 23, 2012

They are indeed highly trained! By their Union! How to strike, how to hold a picket, how to burn tax dollars, how to totally ignore the youth they are supposed to mentor.

My 2 buddies living to the left and right of me can attest to this. "Its all about the summers off".... Their wives are both grade school teachers... I'm putting mine in private school.. Brrrrrrrr

You do know who the oldest Union in the country is right? It is the Nova Scotia Teachers Union. Guess how many times they have been on strike in the 125 years they have been around? Never. So I take your comments to be uninformed nonsense as always.

Again if you want to work a seasonal job you can have the summers off unpaid as well.

Edited June 23, 2012 by punked

CPCFTW · June 23, 2012

You do know who the oldest Union in the country is right? It is the Nova Scotia Teachers Union. Guess how many times they have been on strike in the 125 years they have been around? Never. So I take your comments to be uninformed nonsense as always.

Again if you want to work a seasonal job you can have the summers off unpaid as well.

I think you're missing the point.

It's not a question of whether others would like to also have summers off and bankable sick days, and PD days, and defined benefit pensions. It's a question of whether the taxpayer should be paying undergrads 50-75k + pensions + ridiculous benefits for 8 months of work.

Even if you are a champion of the public sector, you could reduce unemployment simply by paying teachers less, hiring more of them, and reducing class sizes. There's no reason to pay them that much for 8 months of work in this economy.

Edited June 23, 2012 by CPCFTW

Argus · June 23, 2012

Hmmmm. Federal workers vs rest of Canadians. 2 groups. Hahahahahahaha???? Your making yourself look kinda silly.

Not really. If you take public servants as one group and "the rest" as another group, well "the rest" is going to include an awful lot of people with virtually no job skills working minimum wage jobs as shop clerks, parking lot attendants, security guards, dishwashers and the like. It's going to include a huge number of people working for small mom & pop businesses.

As everyone knows, larger organizations have much more complicated processes and tend to hire more experienced, more educated, more skilled workers. Naturally, those who work for larger organizations tend to make more money than those working for small ones, and tend to get better benefits, regardless of whether they're public or private, union or non-union.

So you're comparing a skilled workforce working for a very large organization, which is unionized with "everyone else", which includes a lot of very low-skill people working for small organizations with no benefits. And there's just no logical way of comparing those two groups as far as sick days go. As I said, when you're sick in smaller, private sector organizations which have no benefits you either work anyway, or do without pay. Or if you're really sick you go on disability or pogey. None of that is counted as a 'sick day', as it is with federal public sector workers.

This is particularly so with long-term illnesses which, as I've previously pointed out, greatly affects the statistics here.

Argus · June 23, 2012

There's some pretty weak arguments in here..

First of all, disability is cheaper than sick days. Also, disability is harder to abuse than sick days.

Depends. If you're talking about the sick days where a guy calls in sick on a Monday because he doesn't feel like going to work, then yes, sick leave is easier to abuse. But as I've pointed out, these statistics are thrown off more by the long-term illnesses people get. And that is no easier to abuse than disability. In either event you need medical sign-offs before you can stay off work and get paid for any length of time.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Argus

CPCFTW · June 23, 2012

Depends. If you're talking about the sick days where a guy calls in sick on a Monday because he doesn't feel like going to work, then yes, disability is easier to abuse. But as I've pointed out, these statistics are thrown off more by the long-term illnesses people get. And that is no easier to abuse than disability. In either event you need medical sign-offs before you can stay off work and get paid for any length of time.

You didn't point out anything to anyone with half a brain. For some reason you used a sample of 10 employees to show that 1 employee taking an extended leave (5 months!!!) will throw the numbers way off. Do you really think 1 in 10 public workers needs back surgery, or some other 5 months of extended sick leave every year? I've worked for a company of 300-500 people for several years and I can't recall even one person taking an extended leave due to health issues. Come on, how stupid do you think we are? 1 in 10 employees do not need 5 months of sick leave every year.

The reality is that public sector workers can, and do take many "sick" days off during the summers or because of a Monday morning hangover. You don't need an extended leave to abuse the system. They may work 4 day weeks for 2/4 summer months (8 "sick" days), and then legitimately be sick for 3-5 more during the remainder of the year and bank the rest. That is pretty typical of a public sector employee from my experience (and I grew up in Ottawa, so I know a lot of public sector employees).

Edited June 23, 2012 by CPCFTW

capricorn · June 24, 2012

The reality is that public sector workers can, and do take many "sick" days off during the summers or because of a Monday morning hangover.

CPCFTW, I won't dispute what you say as I actually observed this myself when I worked for the public service. Adding to this, there are many reasons that prompt public servants to deplete their casual sick days. For example as I recall, public servants get 5 days per year for family leave should a child or spouse become ill and need care at home, or for medical appointments. That's not a lot for one whole year if you have a couple of kids especially if you're a single parent. I know of cases who use their sick days (even annual leave) to stay home to care for a sick family member. I'm not saying it's right but that's the situation. And truth be told, supervisors for the most part don't bat an eye when they're cognizant of their employee's situation, especially when the employee is a good performer.

There is also the fact that many of these workers are not that concerned about depleting their casual sick days cause they know if they need extensive days off due to their own medical needs say, for surgery, they can always access EI and/or their long term disability plan to maintain a percentage of their income.

Of course, there's the whole other question of whether stress is a contributing factor to public servants taking so many days off for sick reasons. Sure, an in depth study on this whole matter maybe could provide some answers but my gut tells me that in the vast majority of cases the answer is so simple it's staring us right in the face. The sick leave benefit is there and employees are using it to their advantage, depending on their personal circumstances. So really, IMO statistics on the use of sick leave by public servants cannot possibly provide an accurate picture of the situation on the ground.