Dunderdale lays into MacKay

[Smallc]

Out of the way from where? Toronto?

From Trenton and Greenwood, where the closest airlift assets are.

[Wilber]

From Trenton and Greenwood, where the closest airlift assets are.

What's new? Shortly after they built the longest runway in the country at Namao, they moved the airborne out of Edmonton.

[Guest Derek L]

The commitment has been made several times since 2006 for your information. As well Goose Bay is considered a very strategic location for the military, specifically with regards to artic sovereignty.

Bullshit……..Of what strategic value is a glut of remote bases, of little value militarily, that cost tremendous amounts of scarce money to operate when the pointy end of the military doesn’t have enough money to replace equipment and train it’s members?

[Guest Derek L]

From Trenton and Greenwood, where the closest airlift assets are.

Greenwood should also get the axe.......Helicopters to Shearwater and fixed wing to Stanfield International……….Well we’re at it:

Moose Jaw ---- > to Cold lake

Bagotville, North Bay and Winnipeg ---- > Trenton

Borden ----- > Kingston and various other bases

Montréal ----- > Valcatraz

[Guest Derek L]

What's new? Shortly after they built the longest runway in the country at Namao, they moved the airborne out of Edmonton.

And put buildings on the runway……..

[Newfoundlander]

Bullshit……..Of what strategic value is a glut of remote bases, of little value militarily, that cost tremendous amounts of scarce money to operate when the pointy end of the military doesn’t have enough money to replace equipment and train it’s members?

I guess the government saying it is a strategic location and needed for the arctic sovereignty was just more bull shit from them.

[punked]

I guess the government saying it is a strategic location and needed for the arctic sovereignty was just more bull shit from them.

You got it. They needed the votes, now that there are more seats in Alberta, BC, and Ontario next election your Newfoundland votes means less, so they can take from you guys and give to someone else. East coasters were idiots for voting in any Conservatives in the first place. The writing has been on the wall for a long time what this government was going to do for you guys. Hope you vote for whatever party next election which has the best shot of kicking these guys out.

[Newfoundlander]

You got it. They needed the votes, now that there are more seats in Alberta, BC, and Ontario next election your Newfoundland votes means less, so they can take from you guys and give to someone else. East coasters were idiots for voting in any Conservatives in the first place. The writing has been on the wall for a long time what this government was going to do for you guys. Hope you vote for whatever party next election which has the best shot of kicking these guys out.

Yes because Mulcair cares so much more.

[Guest Derek L]

I guess the government saying it is a strategic location and needed for the arctic sovereignty was just more bull shit from them.

Most of the Government’s proposals (AOPS, northern military base etc) regarding the arctic are BS…….So yeah……….As is the continuation of maintaining numerous bases across the country by all past governments.

[punked]

Yes because Mulcair cares so much more.

He needs your vote more then Harper does now so he kinda has to care more. Haven't you figured out how politics works? Next election Harper has about as many new picks up in the West as he has seats in the East. That means he can strengthen his base by cutting and slashing in the east with out political fall out. Unless you put in someone who can unseat him (on a united east vote) then the West gets more and you get less. Welcome to Canada.

Edited May 19, 2012 by punked

[Newfoundlander]

He needs your vote more then Harper does now so he kinda has to care more. Haven't you figured out how politics works? Next election Harper has about as many new picks up in the West as he has seats in the East. That means he can strengthen his base by cutting and slashing in the east with out political fall out. Unless you put in someone who can unseat him (on a united east vote) then the West gets more and you get less. Welcome to Canada.

He needs are votes more so he says that our offshore oil and mining, along with Saskatchewan and Alberta are responsible for the downturn in the economies of Ontario and Quebec?

[punked]

He needs are votes more so he says that our offshore oil and mining, along with Saskatchewan and Alberta are responsible for the downturn in the economies of Ontario and Quebec?

Yah you might want to check into Dutch Disease. This might shock you but NFLD still has more people employed in manufacturing then oil and mining. It is always the uninformed that hurt their own by buying into the hype.

We wont even mention those employed in the public sector that the Conservatives are cutting as well as Health and Education. As well as the Fishing and Fish processing which also feels the hurt from Dutch Disease. Get with the program friend. I know you hate the NDP but you must love Newfoundland more.

At this time I will point out Mulcair does not want to stop oil development. He wants it grown in a responsible way so that Dutch Disease doesn't hurt other Canadian sectors. Why is it so bad he wants to learn from the mistakes other resource heavy countries have made so Canada can be stronger then otherwise? Why would you think that a bad thing?

Edited May 19, 2012 by punked

[waldo]

The commitment has been made several times since 2006 for your information. As well Goose Bay is considered a very strategic location for the military, specifically with regards to Arctic sovereignty.

Bullshit……..Of what strategic value is a glut of remote bases, of little value militarily, that cost tremendous amounts of scarce money to operate when the pointy end of the military doesn’t have enough money to replace equipment and train it’s members?

from 2... 2 days ago! MacKay says he backs 5 Wing Goose Bay - calls BS on MLW member 'Derek L's' BS claim

Conservative Defence Minister Peter MacKay:

“I wish to reaffirm that the defence team is working to fulfill our commitment for an operational mandate for Canadian Forces Base Goose Bay so that the base, and the community, prospers for years to come,”

[Newfoundlander]

Yah you might want to check into Dutch Disease. This might shock you but NFLD still has more people employed in manufacturing then oil and mining. It is always the uninformed that hurt their own by buying into the hype.

We wont even mention those employed in the public sector that the Conservatives are cutting as well as Health and Education. Get with the program friend. I know you hate the NDP but you must love Newfoundland more.

At this time I will point out Mulcair does not want to stop oil development. He wants it grown in a responsible way so that Dutch Disease doesn't hurt other Canadian sectors. Why is it so bad he wants to learn from the mistakes other resource heavy countries have made so Canada can be stronger then otherwise? Why would you think that a bad thing?

So if Dutch Disease has led to the manufacturing industry collapsing because the dollar rose, why did the manufacturing industry get hit so hard in the US when their dollar has fallen?

[punked]

So if Dutch Disease has led to the manufacturing industry collapsing because the dollar rose, why did the manufacturing industry get hit so hard in the US when their dollar has fallen?

In 2008 when the bleeding started the dollar was quite high. Although now that the dollar is super low manufacturing is coming back to the US and the industry is starting to grow. This is not only due to the low dollar but also money that is being pumped out by the Fed to increase lending which means that old manufacturing centers can retool and become more competitive. Over the last year alone the US manufacturing has added half a million jobs after bottoming out in Jan 2010. It is a complex problem but if you think a high dollar does not effect manufacturing and processing sectors in Newfoundland over the next few years I think you are wrong. You will just be trading one type of job for another and will get no further ahead.

Just for once put your political beliefs aside and look at the problem from a non-partisan angle because your province is going to feel the hurt to I promise.

There is nothing wrong with developing the resource sector but unless those sectors are regulated and managed properly they will just take their wealth and leave when everything is gone. This will not make the country any stronger.

This btw isn't one of those times where I am poking you to get you going. This is a pure policy driven punked post. I am begging you to just look at the facts. Newfoundland isn't Alberta, you are not an oil giant, in fact oil is still a small part of your employment pie. Slowing its growth, and taxing it reinvest in Canada will only help your province.

Edited May 19, 2012 by punked

[Newfoundlander]

In 2008 when the bleeding started the dollar was quite high. Although now that the dollar is super low manufacturing is coming back to the US and the industry is starting to grow. This is not only due to the low dollar but also money that is being pumped out by the Fed to increase lending which means that old manufacturing centers can retool and become more competitive. Over the last year alone the US manufacturing has added half a million jobs after bottoming out in Jan 2010. It is a complex problem but if you think a high dollar does not effect manufacturing and processing sectors in Newfoundland over the next few years I think you are wrong. You will just be trading one type of job for another and will get no further ahead.

Just for once put your political beliefs aside and look at the problem from a non-partisan angle because your province is going to feel the hurt to I promise.

There is nothing wrong with developing the resource sector but unless those sectors are regulated and managed properly they will just take their wealth and leave when everything is gone. This will not make the country any stronger.

This btw isn't one of those times where I am poking you to get you going. This is a pure policy driven punked post. I am begging you to just look at the facts. Newfoundland isn't Alberta, you are not an oil giant, in fact oil is still a small part of your employment pie. Slowing its growth, and taxing it reinvest in Canada will only help your province.

It's nothing to do with being partisan towards the NDP, who's candidate I voted for a year ago, it's that I don't buy the Dutch Disease scenario. Why didn't Jack Layton bring it up before? I never heard Dutch Disease mentioned as the reason why the manufacturing sector has failed till Mulcair brought it up a few weeks ago, why has the issue not been brought up till now?

[punked]

It's nothing to do with being partisan towards the NDP, who's candidate I voted for a year ago, it's that I don't buy the Dutch Disease scenario. Why didn't Jack Layton bring it up before? I never heard Dutch Disease mentioned as the reason why the manufacturing sector has failed till Mulcair brought it up a few weeks ago, why has the issue not been brought up till now?

Yet the Governments own study which came to light yesterday says it is a real thing and that is hurting our manufacturing sector. This isn't really like the Bible where you can believe or not believe in it. I am not asking you to have "faith" in if Duct Disease exists. It is a real thing you can go read academic papers about it if you want. If your dollar goes up your industry either has to become more productive or it has to die. Mulcair didn't make up Dutch Disease or grab it because it makes a good story. He is only listening to those who make it their job to study these things. Do you have actual reasons why you don't buy into it or is this just a "I am going to stick my fingers in my ears and hum" type of thing? Can you be convinced or have you already read up on phenomenon and applied your knowledge to of our economy to the problem?

“We show that between 33 and 39 per cent of the manufacturing employment loss that was due to exchange rate developments between 2002 and 2007 is related to the Dutch Disease phenomenon,” says the study.

The research, more than 18 months in the making, was carried out in part by Serge Coulombe, an economics professor at the University of Ottawa, who says Industry Canada was highly supportive of his work.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-government-funded-study-arguing-canada-suffers-from-dutch-disease/article2437617/

[Newfoundlander]

I'm aware of what Dutch Disease is and believe it's a real thing, I just don't think it's solely responsible for what happened to our manufacturing sector.

[punked]

I'm aware of what Dutch Disease is and believe it's a real thing, I just don't think it's solely responsible for what happened to our manufacturing sector.

It isn't as the study says it is about 40% responsible. Which is a lot of jobs that can be saved if we choose to believe it is happening and we choose to act on it. Again you can act on Dutch Disease with out killing your resources sector. However first you must actually admit that is a problem.

[Newfoundlander]

It isn't as the study says it is about 40% responsible. Which is a lot of jobs that can be saved if we choose to believe it is happening and we choose to act on it. Again you can act on Dutch Disease with out killing your resources sector. However first you must actually admit that is a problem.

Well I guess we'll soon see some reports on this by economists, and we'll also see how it effects Mulcair.

[Rick]

It's nothing to do with being partisan towards the NDP, who's candidate I voted for a year ago, it's that I don't buy the Dutch Disease scenario. Why didn't Jack Layton bring it up before? I never heard Dutch Disease mentioned as the reason why the manufacturing sector has failed till Mulcair brought it up a few weeks ago, why has the issue not been brought up till now?

Here's some more about Dutch Disease...

The Harper government has funded research that argues Canada's economy suffers from so-called Dutch Disease, an economic theory the prime minister and other senior officials ridiculed when raised recently by NDP Leader Tom Mulcair.

Industry Canada paid $25,000 to three academics to produce the lengthy study, which is about to be published in a prestigious journal, Resource and Energy Economics.

The department also helped the trio build a database so they could investigate Dutch Disease, the theory that a resource boom that drives up the value of a country's currency can damage the manufacturing sector.

The paper, "Does the Canadian Economy Suffer from Dutch Disease?," concludes that a third or more of job losses in Canada's manufacturing sector can be attributed to resource-driven currency appreciation.

"We show that between 33 and 39 per cent of the manufacturing employment loss that was due to exchange rate developments between 2002 and 2007 is related to the Dutch Disease phenomenon," says the study.

So even the very experts that Harper hired to do the study conclude Mulcair is right about this...

Of course, whenever someone has a dissenting opinion, Harper shuts them up or axes the program because it doesn't fit with his fascist agenda

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/05/18/pol-cp-dutch-disease-industry-canada-jpbs.html

[punked]

Here's some more about Dutch Disease...

So even the very experts that Harper hired to do the study conclude Mulcair is right about this...

Of course, whenever someone has a dissenting opinion, Harper shuts them up or axes the program because it doesn't fit with his fascist agenda

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/05/18/pol-cp-dutch-disease-industry-canada-jpbs.html

It wont matter Newfoundlander would rather see Newfoundland sink into the Ocean and Harper become King of Canada before he supports the NDP no matter how moderate they become or how right they are.

[Guest Derek L]

from 2... 2 days ago! MacKay says he backs 5 Wing Goose Bay - calls BS on MLW member 'Derek L's' BS claim

What claim was that?

[Newfoundlander]

It wont matter Newfoundlander would rather see Newfoundland sink into the Ocean and Harper become King of Canada before he supports the NDP no matter how moderate they become or how right they are.

I've said I voted NDP twice.

[Guest Derek L]

Hmmm from six years ago an opinion piece from (Liberal) Senator Colin Kenny on the CPC's plans for the "Goose".......

The Goose Bay boondoggle

If this were one lone military boondoggle, it would be one too many. But it isn't. The Department of Defence owns one building for every five soldiers in uniform. Many of our military facilities are redundant, but keep sapping funds from the Canadian Forces because politicians aren't willing to risk votes by doing the right thing.

Would the NDP be any different?

Last week the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence came down with a new report, Managing Turmoil. It spoke of things that elected politicians dread to talk about. It pointed out that Canada can ill afford to waste defence dollars for political purposes when there isn't enough money in the defence budget to allow the Canadian Forces to do their job.

The Goose Bay Air Base is just one example of spending that the military would like to eradicate but that politicians keep flowing to buy votes. There are hundreds of outdated military facilities across this country -- including reserve armouries with their own proud histories -- which should be closed or amalgamated in the interests of creating a more efficient military.

As I mentioned earlier our military would be well served closing a handful bases, and could serve Canada more effectively with a redirect of funds from unneeded bases to equipment, training etc……

The Armed Forces would best be served by downsizing to :

Navy:

Esquimalt

Halifax

Air Force:

Comox/ Pat Bay

Cold Lake

Trenton

Kingston (Joint services)

Shearwater

Gander

Army:

Edmonton

Wainwright

Suffield

Shilo

Petawawa

Meaford

Valcartier

Gagetown

And Ottawa for NDHQ, various smaller stations and reserve armouries across Canada.

As mentioned in the piece by the Senator, little Goose Bay alone costs DND over 50 million a year to operate, to say nothing of the various other bases I mentioned earlier and their sunk costs and any future required upgrades.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Derek L