Provinces-recruting doctors

[Topaz]

I've seen ads in the local newspaper where the West are trying to get doctors from other parts of Canada to come West. Why doesn't these provinces import foreign doctors since the Feds are importing foreign workers? Since Ontario is cutting some doctors' fees they are repeatly sending notices to Ontario doctors. It's up to the doctors but I wonder why they became doctors, to help other people OR for the money? The pay may be higher out West but the cost of living is too and I bet the hours will be longer and the stress level.

[Smallc]

doesn't these provinces import foreign doctors since the Feds are importing foreign workers?

They do, but getting doctors that are already meeting Canadian standards make things far easier for them. The cost of living is higher in 3 of the 4 western provinces, but not this one, so they can come here if they don't want that.

[fellowtraveller]

The cost of living in the West is higher than Toronto?

I don't think so.

Importing foreign doctors in not an option unless they are from Western Europe, and those ones already make a good living where they are so there is little incentive to emigrate.

[Topaz]

The cost of living in the West is higher than Toronto?

I don't think so.

Importing foreign doctors in not an option unless they are from Western Europe, and those ones already make a good living where they are so there is little incentive to emigrate.

I wasn't thinking of just Toronto, doctors do work all over Ontario.

[Smallc]

The cost of living in the West is higher than Toronto?

In Vancouver, but otherwise, no.

[guyser]

In Vancouver, but otherwise, no.

Probably best to call it a wash.

Some stuff will say Van C is more expensive, plenty of other info says TO is.

In certain areas , Van is, or TO is. Think utilities vs weather. Think of size of Van vs size of TO (city areas proper, not the GTA or GVA)

[Guest Derek L]

I've seen ads in the local newspaper where the West are trying to get doctors from other parts of Canada to come West. Why doesn't these provinces import foreign doctors since the Feds are importing foreign workers? Since Ontario is cutting some doctors' fees they are repeatly sending notices to Ontario doctors. It's up to the doctors but I wonder why they became doctors, to help other people OR for the money? The pay may be higher out West but the cost of living is too and I bet the hours will be longer and the stress level.

As alluded to by others, importing foreign doctors (amongst other medical professionals) isn’t that easy, since when said professionals arrive, they have to receive accreditation from their professional bodies/unions which is a very drawn out process…..

[guyser]

As alluded to by others, importing foreign doctors (amongst other medical professionals) isn’t that easy, since when said professionals arrive, they have to receive accreditation from their professional bodies/unions which is a very drawn out process…..

A drawn out process that is mandated and run by other Drs who want the market kept tight for various reasons.

The truth is many 'imported' Drs could and should be able to practice within a 6mth-1yr time frame, were it not for the various governing (read:Dr run) boards.

[Guest Derek L]

A drawn out process that is mandated and run by other Drs who want the market kept tight for various reasons.

The truth is many 'imported' Drs could and should be able to practice within a 6mth-1yr time frame, were it not for the various governing (read:Dr run) boards.

Agreed. It was a painful process for my wife to receive accreditation (Dentist/South Africa) here, all the while, she was good enough for stint with MSF and practicing on a work visa when we lived in the States…….Not only in medicine, but in my view, all professions should have a streamlined process.

[dre]

Agreed. It was a painful process for my wife to receive accreditation (Dentist/South Africa) here, all the while, she was good enough for stint with MSF and practicing on a work visa when we lived in the States…….Not only in medicine, but in my view, all professions should have a streamlined process.

It doesnt matter if you DO get go through the 4+ year process of just getting certified as a doctor... Because if you do there isnt enough residency slots, so even a lot of the doctors that DO get certified still cant work.

[Guest Derek L]

It doesnt matter if you DO get go through the 4+ year process of just getting certified as a doctor... Because if you do there isnt enough residency slots, so even a lot of the doctors that DO get certified still cant work.

Perhaps that’s the case now, but here (BC) there was quite the demand for healthcare professionals during the early-mid 90s…..

[Topaz]

In some areas, we have the naturopathic doctors, but they can't write up prescriptions, even though they have 4 years of medical school and if these doctors had the same rights as "regular" docs, it could bring down the cost of health care.

[Smallc]

[wyly]

In Vancouver, but otherwise, no.

Calgary is not an inexpensive city...

[wyly]

As alluded to by others, importing foreign doctors (amongst other medical professionals) isn’t that easy, since when said professionals arrive, they have to receive accreditation from their professional bodies/unions which is a very drawn out process…..

not always some candidates are fast tracked when their credentials are beyond question...there is no standard/rigid procedure for accreditation it can be very flexible and it varies from province to province... Edited May 17, 2012 by wyly

[wyly]

It doesnt matter if you DO get go through the 4+ year process of just getting certified as a doctor... Because if you do there isnt enough residency slots, so even a lot of the doctors that DO get certified still cant work.

not all MDs are required to do residency some skip right over this step...but yes there are limited slots which our own Canadians get first crack at which is fair...

Edited May 17, 2012 by wyly

[Smallc]

Calgary is not an inexpensive city...

But it's very similar in price to Toronto.

[wyly]

A drawn out process that is mandated and run by other Drs who want the market kept tight for various reasons.

common myth, many specialist MDs have long waiting lists and doubling the amount of specialists in their field would have little effect...my MD friend tells me he welcomes any help as he can't cope with the patient load he now has...

The truth is many 'imported' Drs could and should be able to practice within a 6mth-1yr time frame, were it not for the various governing (read:Dr run) boards.

another myth, not all foreign medical schools produce MDs of a quality acceptable to practice in Canada...in standardization tests many foreign "qualified" MDs repeatedly fail the same tests that Canadian candidates must pass...next time a taxi driver tells you he's a MD you'll why he/she is driving that cab...

[wyly]

But it's very similar in price to Toronto.

that's my understanding too, Vancouver is at another level altogether...

[dre]

Perhaps thats the case now, but here (BC) there was quite the demand for healthcare professionals during the early-mid 90s…..

There IS a demand for them. But even once you are certified you have to do a two year residency before you can really practice medicine. In Alberta for example theres an acute shortage of family physicians but there are lots of doctors who have passed their exams sitting there waiting for residency slots.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2009/10/07/edmonton-doctors-shortage-health.html

There are more than 600 internationally trained doctors in Alberta right now, and somewhere between 150 and 300 of them have passed all their exams and are waiting for a residency spot.

These people ran the 4-5 year certification gauntlet, passed all their exams, and STILL cant practice medicine. Meanwhile, people cant find a family doctor. And the scarcity created by this bad policy is one of the big factors driving up medical costs.

Edited May 17, 2012 by dre

[wyly]

There IS a demand for them. But even once you are certified you have to do a two year residency before you can really practice medicine. In Alberta for example theres an acute shortage of family physicians but there are lots of doctors who have passed their exams sitting there waiting for residency slots.

there is no mandatory two year residency program, candidates are judged individually residency requirements are based on qualifications of applicant, some do as little as 6 months others can skip the residency entirely if he/she is deemed a star candidate... a MD friend of mine is one of those who makes those decisions and mrs wyly has also been involved in the process...

These people ran the 4-5 year certification gauntlet, passed all their exams, and STILL cant practice medicine. Meanwhile, people cant find a family doctor. And the scarcity created by this bad policy is one of the big factors driving up medical costs.

how does a MD shortage drive up cost? MD pay rate does not go up with demand...

you make sound as if the certification process "gaunlet" is means to discourage MDs, the process is a quality safeguard... foreign MDs are welcome to practice here but they must be of a proven quality equal to that of Canadian trained MDs there can no lowering of standards...A shortage of residency slots is due more to a lack of space and funding than anything else...

Edited May 17, 2012 by wyly

[fellowtraveller]

I find myself in the very very rare circumstance of agreeing somewhat with wyly......

the time required for qualifying foreign doctors varies with circumstance of each doctor.

IMO there is absolutely no way that any skills assessment should be fasttracked for physicians or any health progfessionals, the consequences of error are serious. For example, Cuba is touted as having a great health care system, with the implication that doctors there should then be accredited here easily. The reality is that Cuba has a good prevaventative system, easily accessed by anybodfy there.

The doctors have very little access to current drug s, and little if any training on the latest technology because Cuba cannot afford these things. No way should they step into certification and patient care here without lots of training.

That applies to many if not most countries in the world.

Edited May 17, 2012 by fellowtraveller

[wyly]

I find myself in the very very rare circumstance of agreeing somewhat with wyly......

the time required for qualifying foreign doctors varies with circumstance of each doctor.

IMO there is absolutely no way that any skills assessment should be fasttracked for physicians or any health progfessionals, the consequences of error are serious. For example, Cuba is touted as having a great health care system, with the implication that doctors there should then be accredited here easily. The reality is that Cuba has a good prevaventative system, easily accessed by anybodfy there.

The doctors have very little access to current drug s, and little if any training on the latest technology because Cuba cannot afford these things. No way should they step into certification and patient care here without lots of training.

That applies to many if not most countries in the world.

Cubans reportedly have enviable access to healthcare overall quality of those MDs is an unknown however...

there are foreign MDs who are fast tracked through our accreditation systems but these are normally MDs with all the right credentials, educational background, employment history, referrals, published etc...my sources tell me in spite of that occasionally they get it wrong and those "star" candidates are unqualified as well...our accreditation system for MD's is rigorous for good reason as my source tells me "we try to screen out the idiots but still some give all the right answers and say the right things and slip into the system"...

there are others who are fast tracked if they agree to work in isolated or rural communities, these accreditation agreements are restricted to a single province...

[fellowtraveller]

Cubans reportedly have enviable access to healthcare overall quality of those MDs is an unknown however...

there are foreign MDs who are fast tracked through our accreditation systems but these are normally MDs with all the right credentials, educational background, employment history, referrals, published etc...my sources tell me in spite of that occasionally they get it wrong and those "star" candidates are unqualified as well...our accreditation system for MD's is rigorous for good reason as my source tells me "we try to screen out the idiots but still some give all the right answers and say the right things and slip into the system"...

there are others who are fast tracked if they agree to work in isolated or rural communities, these accreditation agreements are restricted to a single province...

No, not really, says my lifelong friend who works in this field in Edmonton. Docs who have trained in Western Europe, NZ, Australia, USA and South Africa are fastracked because the quailty of training in those countries is very simliar to ours. Of course, relatively few docs from those places apply because they have no economic or professional need to leave their home countries.

Persons trained elsewhere are often required to more or less start over.

Answering questions won't get you accredited, unless the questions are on board exams taken by all.

Many well trained docs fail language exams, also required to demonstrate mastery of English.

Accreditation is not granted because you are willing to work in Dognuts, AB.

[fellowtraveller]

Cubans reportedly have enviable access to healthcare overall quality of those MDs is an unknown however...

No, it is assumed that Cuban trained doctors do not have adequate trainig in current drugs or technology if they are trained in Cuba. It is their job to convince authorities otherwise.