Hey Dalton, Suzuki, and Al baby...

[Guest Peeves]

http://www.inquisitr.com/227092/wind-farms-may-contribute-to-global-warming-new-research-suggests/

While wind energy is known to be cleaner than burning fossil fuels, researchers have found that wind farms have a direct effect on the environment around them, warming the local climate by as much as 0.72 degrees Celsius per decade.

Researchers analysed satellite data of the areas surrounding wind farms in Texas, where four of the world’s largest wind farms are stationed. The data was compiled between 2003 and 2011.

The results, which were published Sunday in Nature Climate Change journal, show that this change is in comparison to the areas around the wind farms, which also experienced a change, attributed to global warming.

(more at link)

[waldo]

Hey Dalton, Suzuki, and Al baby... "wind farms contribute to global warming"

hey Peeves baby... you don't know enough to know you don't know!

localized effect... nothing to do with global warming... occurs at night only (see temp inversion)... daytime temperatures unaffected... at night, turbines pulling warm air down to ground level... see distinction between land surface temp & air surface temp...

in the paper's main author's own words:

we express the warming effect as a linear trend in °C per decade units. This is just one simple way to quantify the wind farm impacts while reducing the year-to-year data noise.

The estimated warming trend only applies to the study region and to the study period, and thus should not be extrapolated linearly into other regions (e.g., globally) or over longer periods

compared to impacts of other human-made land use changes, the estimated warming over the wind farms is small

Overall, the warming effect reported in this study is local and is small compared to the strong background year-to-year land surface temperature changes. Very likely, the wind turbines do not create a net warming of the air and instead only re-distribute the air’s heat near the surface (the turbine itself does not generate any heat), which is fundamentally different from the large-scale warming effect caused by increasing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.

note: the actual original source of your linked reference, of this stellar BS is, in fact, a British tabloid newspaper... does Shady know you are taking over his beat?

[GostHacked]

Waldo, the turbines do not bring warm air down. The air is what moves the blades. If warm air is present, it's not because of the turbines. Also the higher you go, the colder it gets. So if anything they would be bringing cold air down.

If the land around the turbines is getting warmer, it is due to the machinery possibly at the base of the turbine. There is something connecting them all underground that would feed the generated electricity.

[fellowtraveller]

Waldo, the turbines do not bring warm air down. The air is what moves the blades. If warm air is present, it's not because of the turbines. Also the higher you go, the colder it gets. So if anything they would be bringing cold air down.

If the land around the turbines is getting warmer, it is due to the machinery possibly at the base of the turbine. There is something connecting them all underground that would feed the generated electricity.

wouldn't there be heat loss off the windings on the generator on each tower?

Why yes there would be.

[Guest Derek L]

Of course there’s a creation of heat, or better put (fluid) friction, by the conversion of two types of energy associated with a wind turbine. Of course the actual amount of heat/friction will be dependent on the wind temperature and the circumference and size/weight of the blades……..This is hardly a new scientific finding……

*edit to add

Edited April 30, 2012 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

To add though, as a form of consolation to supporters of wind/green energy, perhaps you should now jump into bed with these guys:

Boeing

Lockheed Martin

General Dynamics

[waldo]

localized effect... nothing to do with global warming... occurs at night only (see temp inversion)... daytime temperatures unaffected... at night, turbines pulling warm air down to ground level... see distinction between land surface temp & air surface temp...

Waldo, the turbines do not bring warm air down. The air is what moves the blades. If warm air is present, it's not because of the turbines. Also the higher you go, the colder it gets. So if anything they would be bringing cold air down.

If the land around the turbines is getting warmer, it is due to the machinery possibly at the base of the turbine. There is something connecting them all underground that would feed the generated electricity.

no - again, per the paper, satellite derived data shows the warming affect only at night-time... not day-time. In that regard, explain your alternate claim... alternate claim to the paper's authors. You ignored the early reference/quotes from the paper's principal author... here, try one from one of the co-authors:

This warming effect is most likely caused by the turbulence in turbine wakes acting like fans to pull down warmer near-surface air from higher altitudes at night," said Somnath Baidya Roy of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, a co-author of the paper

[waldo]

To add though, as a form of consolation to supporters of wind/green energy, perhaps you should now jump into bed with these guys:

Boeing

Lockheed Martin

General Dynamics

consolation??? Huh! Your fav military crew are only bit players now... looking to get into the game... have you heard, apparently there's a market... a growing market, world-wide - go figure! By the by, here's a handy cut&paste listing the top 10 wind turbine manufacturers... would you like the top 20... top 30?

#1 - Vestas Wind Systems A/S

#2 - GE Wind Energy

#3 - Sinovel

#4 - Enercon GmbH

#5 - Xinjiang Goldwind Science & Technology Co, Ltd

#6 - Gamesa Corporación Tecnologíca, S.A.

#7 - China Dongfang Electric Corporation

#8 - Suzlon Energy

#9 - Siemens Wind Power

#10 - REpower Systems AG

[waldo]

hey Peeves... suck it up and do the right thing... change your thread title - save yourself further embarrassment, hey?

[Guest Derek L]

consolation??? Huh! Your fav military crew are only bit players now... looking to get into the game... have you heard, apparently there's a market... a growing market, world-wide - go figure! By the by, here's a handy cut&paste listing the top 10 wind turbine manufacturers... would you like the top 20... top 30?

#1 - Vestas Wind Systems A/S

#2 - GE Wind Energy

#3 - Sinovel

#4 - Enercon GmbH

#5 - Xinjiang Goldwind Science & Technology Co, Ltd

#6 - Gamesa Corporación Tecnologíca, S.A.

#7 - China Dongfang Electric Corporation

#8 - Suzlon Energy

#9 - Siemens Wind Power

#10 - REpower Systems AG

Without Googling the rest, #2 makes (Super Hornet) jet engines and # 9 (Subsystems for the F-35) military electronics and software..........You should be relieved, clearly a sign that Wind/Green energy has the potential to become a money maker………The Environmental lobby just needs to further shape their message…….Perhaps get big oil further involved

Edited April 30, 2012 by Derek L

[waldo]

Perhaps get big oil further involved

no problem - see "green-wash"... makes for great optics!

[Guest Derek L]

no problem - see "green-wash"... makes for great optics!

No problem, my wife’s Escalade has that cute little Hybrid leaf on it

[waldo]

No problem, my wife’s Escalade has that cute little Hybrid leaf on it

the ultimate green-washing... imagine a hybrid that falls into the same category as Hummers! A 7km/liter gas guzzling behemoth hybrid! Hey what's your pay-back period?

[Guest Derek L]

the ultimate green-washing... imagine a hybrid that falls into the same category as Hummers! A 7km/liter gas guzzling behemoth hybrid! Hey what's your pay-back period?

It has the exact same powertrain as the Hummer……..pay-back period? About the same as Jabba’s hover barge…….

[waldo]

It has the exact same powertrain as the Hummer……..pay-back period? About the same as Jabba’s hover barge…….

granted, for anyone who would actually buy the Escalade "hybrid" tank, pay-back is the last thing on their/your mind... but it does make for great comedy... it's gold Jerry, real gold!

(defer to Yankee sources/numbers): assuming $72K purchase cost, using the EPA's fuel-economy ratings and gas averaged @ $3 dollars/gallon => payback would be at 218,000 miles.

[Guest Derek L]

granted, for anyone who would actually buy the Escalade "hybrid" tank, pay-back is the last thing on their/your mind... but it does make for great comedy... it's gold Jerry, real gold!

(defer to Yankee sources/numbers): assuming $72K purchase cost, using the EPA's fuel-economy ratings and gas averaged @ $3 dollars/gallon => payback would be at 218,000 miles.

Indeed. I think the land yacht is still just under 90k km and about two years left on the lease……..Though we do feel the cost of fuel to an extent, the real hit is parking the beast in downtown Vancouver, which has led the wife to usually hop on the Skytrain…………..When the lease is up, we most certainly will let it go and downsize to probably a CTS or maybe even a Volt.

[Guest Peeves]

hey Peeves baby... you don't know enough to know you don't know!

I know enough to know that there's a great deal of different opinions from many experts and that I wouldn't be likely to consider your opinion for inclusion in that category.

[waldo]

hey Peeves baby... you don't know enough to know you don't know!

hey Peeves... suck it up and do the right thing... change your thread title - save yourself further embarrassment, hey?

I know enough to know that there's a great deal of different opinions from many experts and that I wouldn't be likely to consider your opinion for inclusion in that category.

hey buddy, are you ready to double-down on your idiocy? Are you really going to go up against the paper's own findings and the paper's own author's? My, oh my... you really are an expert!

[Guest Peeves]

hey buddy, are you ready to double-down on your idiocy? Are you really going to go up against the paper's own findings and the paper's own author's? My, oh my... you really are an expert!

I posted a link reference it is what it is. Your personal opinion on the subject carries less weight than the source. Where did I profess to be an expert? However I can spot a maroon. Backatcha.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Peeves

[waldo]

I posted a link reference it is what it is. Your personal opinion on the subject carries less weight than the source. Where did I profess to be an expert? However I can spot a maroon. Backatcha.

and your link reference is full of shyte... which didn't stop you from prancing around with your, "Hey Dalton, Suzuki, and Al baby" crapola, hey?

of course, your type of expertise is to take a BS article that fabricates/falsifies a study and leverage it for your twisted agenda. What you call my "personal opinion" is the facts/quotes of the related study and it's authors. You know... the actual study/paper... the actual study/paper's authors!

I note you haven't had a thing to say about the actual study/paper... about the actual quotes from it's authors..... well... a thing to say, other than your juvenile cut&paste antics. Yes, I can quite easily spot a poser, a maroon, a rube... one by the name of MLW member 'Peeves'.

but hey, don't let your lil' crash & burn dissuade you from exhibiting additional future gems - MLW needs more comedy like yours, hey?

[Guest Manny]

The article points out that this is only a local phenomenon, local heating, the same kind which takes place in virtually ANY mechanical process. Not at all the same as the effect of a greenhouse gas, a very persistent effect as the gas continues to exist in the atmosphere.

[GostHacked]

The article points out that this is only a local phenomenon, local heating, the same kind which takes place in virtually ANY mechanical process. Not at all the same as the effect of a greenhouse gas, a very persistent effect as the gas continues to exist in the atmosphere.

That much is evident in any urban setting.

[bleeding heart]

but hey, don't let your lil' crash & burn dissuade you from exhibiting additional future gems - MLW needs more comedy like [Peeves'], hey?

Very generous of you, but some people might counter that MLW is oversaturated already with such "comedy."

[waldo]

Very generous of you, but some people might counter that MLW is over-saturated already with such "comedy."

we've seen it over and over and over again here on MLW... this was really following a classic pattern in that large mainstream outlets simply passed on the original inane misinforming articles that started, per norm, in the British tabloids. It really ramped up big time when the usual suspects, the likes of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, got a hold of it... and from there it cascaded across the internet. In that regard... MLW member Peeves was actually ahead of the bizarro North American misinformation campaign. MLW member Peeves ignorantly went one step further by crafting a thread title purposely intended to denigrate; his, oh so juvenile, "Hey Dalton, Suzuki, and Al baby". But, of course, as usually is the case, the misinformation campaign gets the big first and sweeping bite of public attention... the follow-ups decrying the lack of proper mainstream reporting and the misinformation never get the same penetration. Same ole, same ole!

this particular study isn't particularly unique, or 'first-leading' - a quick check shows other studies as far back to 2004 with like findings. Of note, this 2010 study (abstract) published in PNAS: Impacts of wind farms on surface air temperatures

Utility-scale large wind farms are rapidly growing in size and numbers all over the world. Data from a meteorological field campaign show that such wind farms can significantly affect near-surface air temperatures. These effects result from enhanced vertical mixing due to turbulence generated by wind turbine rotors. The impacts of wind farms on local weather can be minimized by changing rotor design or by siting wind farms in regions with high natural turbulence. Using a 25-y-long climate dataset, we identified such regions in the world. Many of these regions, such as the Midwest and Great Plains in the United States, are also rich in wind resources, making them ideal candidates for low-impact wind farms.

again... once more, with feeling!

hey (MLW member) Peeves... suck it up and do the right thing... change your thread title - save yourself further embarrassment, hey?

[Guest Peeves]

we've seen it over and over and over again here on MLW... this was really following a classic pattern in that large mainstream outlets simply passed on the original inane misinforming articles that started, per norm, in the British tabloids. It really ramped up big time when the usual suspects, the likes of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, got a hold of it... and from there it cascaded across the internet. In that regard... MLW member Peeves was actually ahead of the bizarro North American misinformation campaign. MLW member Peeves ignorantly went one step further by crafting a thread title purposely intended to denigrate; his, oh so juvenile, "Hey Dalton, Suzuki, and Al baby". But, of course, as usually is the case, the misinformation campaign gets the big first and sweeping bite of public attention... the follow-ups decrying the lack of proper mainstream reporting and the misinformation never get the same penetration. Same ole, same ole!

this particular study isn't particularly unique, or 'first-leading' - a quick check shows other studies as far back to 2004 with like findings. Of note, this 2010 study (abstract) published in PNAS: Impacts of wind farms on surface air temperatures

again... once more, with feeling!

Ain't about to happen, I'm rather proud of the caption. Thought it up myself after a libation or

three. Besides, who died and made you king shit?

Wind farms aren't the only thing blowing hot air huh!