NDP drug shortage motion gets government's support

[Bryan]

Why do millions of Canadians have no family doctor?

Because most of them haven't bothered to really look for one. There are more doctors in Canada now than there have ever been.

Why must Canadians wait for weeks or months before a health appointment?

They don't have to. I can get in to see my doctor within a day. I can get x-rays the same day, I got an MRI within 6 days a few months back.

Why do Canadians accept that a trip to an emergency room means several hours of sitting?

Because they go there when they don't have an emergency.

[Evening Star]

They don't have to. I can get in to see my doctor within a day. I can get x-rays the same day, I got an MRI within 6 days a few months back.

Yeah, I don't get that one either. I've never had to wait months for a regular doctor's appointment. (To see a specialist, maybe.) If my doctor is booked for the day and I really need to see someone, I can always go to a walk-in clinic and be seen within a couple of hours (an option I didn't have in the US, by the way.)

And ER visits can mean several hours of sitting in the US as well.

[fellowtraveller]

In Canada, most health care delivery is already private. Although about 70% of Canadian

health care is financed publicly, almost all of this care is already delivered by private (usually

NFP) providers.

I don't understand how 'almost all of this care is delivered by not-for-profit providers'.

Much is delivered by doctors and their staff. They are most certainly 'for profit' providers, they don't work as a charity.

[August1991]

No. Your point was clear. You said Soviet-style. Did the Soviets have a publically-funded and privately-delivered healthcare system?

They had a publicly-funded and largely not-for-profit delivery system. So, yes. The Canadian system was similar to the Soviet system with central edicts (Canada Health Act). Moreover, each Soviet republic (there were 15) interpreted this in different ways - just like in Canada where bureaucrats in 10 provincial ministries interpret these rules in different ways.

Heck, for good measure, let me throw in the CPSU (Communist Party) members who worked in the ministries/hospitals/health centres. They were like our union activists.

----

Cybercoma, the Soviet Union survived for about 70 years or so and I reckon that our health system will have a similar life expectancy. Like the Soviet Union in the 1970s, our health system at present has extensive shortages obvious to all, politicians (advised by bureaucrats) who talk of "tinkering/more resources" and apologists who blame the problem on "saboteurs" in the Soviet Union or "neo-con/private sector" in Canada.

Bureaucrats - like engineers - love to tinker. But bureaucrats always want more resources.

Canada's health system is Soviet, and I suspect that it will have a similar end - in about 10-15 years or so.

Edited March 18, 2012 by August1991

[August1991]

Because most of them haven't bothered to really look for one. There are more doctors in Canada now than there have ever been.

Huh? Bryan, you sound like Leonid Brezhnev.

According to "your" statistics, there may be more doctors. But according to "official" statistics, Canadians can't find them.

In 2010, 4.4 million people, or 15% of the population aged 12 and older, reported that they did not have a regular medical doctor.

Correction: More than one quarter of those aged 20 to 34 (27%) were without a regular medical doctor, a percentage steadily declining as age increases. In comparison, nearly 1 in 5 Canadians aged 35 to 44 (18%) and 5% of seniors 65 years old and over were without a regular medical doctor.

In 2010, as in previous years, men were generally more likely than women to report being without a regular doctor.

Of the 4.4 million Canadians without a regular medical doctor in 2010, more than 8 in 10 (82%) reported that they had a usual place to go when they needed medical care or health advice. A majority (62%) reported using a walk-in clinic, while another 13% visited a hospital emergency room.

Correction: In 2010, as in previous years, just over half of those without a regular medical doctor (53%) had tried unsuccessfully to find one. Among these, 40% said that doctors in their area were not taking new patients, 31% said that their doctor had retired or left the area and 27% said that no doctors were available in their area.

Statistics Canada 2010

Bryan, how old are you? Do you live in a large city, or in a rural town?

In 1970 (heck, in 1950), how many Canadians were without access to a family doctor - someone that they had known for many years? Was it "more than one quarter of those aged 20 to 34 (27%) without a regular medical doctor, a percentage steadily declining as age increases"?

----

The Soviet Union also had a statistical service that presented similar arguments in defence of the status quo.

Fortunately, we have glasnost.

Glasnost? Consider this random 2011 CBC article. (Note that comments were closed after 9 made.)

And note this phrase in the CBC report:

It's the first time the agency has opened new positions based on geographical need, but Ackaoui said some areas are a hard sell.

Two typical Soviet bureaucratic phrases to explain a shortage: "agency" and "geographical need".

Edited March 18, 2012 by August1991

[cybercoma]

Like the Soviet Union in the 1970s, our health system at present has extensive shortages obvious to all

Pure hyperbole. These shortages you're talking about are not even remotely close to being as they were in the Soviety Union in the 70s. If I want to go see a doctor, I walk into a clinic, go to the ER, or make an appointment with my family doctor. If I collapse, lose consciousness, and someone calls the EMTs, I will get through triage immediately. If I need an MRI for exploratory work on an issue that is non-critical, 90% of people have them done within 6 weeks. That's nearly every patient, while emergencies are handled without delay. Sometimes it takes months to get in to see a specialist; however, if your blood work comes back with a serious issue or you're admitted to an ER, you will see the specialist within 24-48 hours. Quite frankly the people with the biggest problem with the healthcare system are those with little contact with the system. Those that use the system actually rate it quite well.

[Bryan]

Huh? Bryan, you sound like Leonid Brezhnev.

According to "your" statistics, there may be more doctors. But according to "official" statistics, Canadians can't find them.

It's not my statistics.

Doctor numbers in Canada at all-time high

More physicians than ever; greatest percentage increase in physicians in 20 years

Physician supply increasing twice as quickly as Canadian population

The rate of growth in the supply of physicians is more than double that of the Canadian population, and the current supply is literally the highest it's ever been.

Bryan, how old are you? Do you live in a large city, or in a rural town?

I'm 44, and live in a smaller city (Winnipeg). I grew up in a small northern town (Flin Flon).

I've posted my experiences with the healthcare system here before. I've just never seen or experienced these shortages. We have five doctors between the four of us in my household. We can always get in to see any one of them within a day.

[mentalfloss]

Drug shortage forces hospice to turn away dying patient

[cybercoma]

It's collusion between the American medical insurance providers and the pharmaceutical industry to attack Canadian healthcare. Create an artificial problem, then blame it on public-payer medicine.

[Bryan]

It's collusion between the American medical insurance providers and the pharmaceutical industry to attack Canadian healthcare. Create an artificial problem, then blame it on public-payer medicine.

I suspect that's what it really boils down to.