bush_cheney2004 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 You think it will be just a minor bombing campaign... yeah okay, what are you people smoking? Who had Libya's back? Iran? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Oh, so now Argentina can jump 'em before anybody notices? Oh what is a Queen to do? Its the best opportunity they'd have in decades, U.K will have to decide to cut their losses and let them take it if whatever military they have left is concerned with Iran, the U.S is involved against Iran.. who is going to stop them? nobody Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Who had Libya's back? Iran? What is your objection to my comments? That you don't think Iran will have any allies? Quote
j44 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 All kinds of things can escalate, if the U.K, U.S is mired in a war with Iran then Argentina could take the Falklands and since they are backed up this time by many South & Central American countries there would be escalation on that front...as you know Iran is also allies with many of those countries currently Then there's Russia, China, India whom all need Iran Pakistan is on the Iranian side, Afghanistan & Iraq are too There is just too many countries that would get mixed up in this ..it's way too risky Are you under the assumption that Iran has no allies? I didnt say it had no allies I am questioning your assumption that these countries would back Iran in a war. Most of the countries you listed are allies with the US but have ties with Iran. Why would they side with Iran (whose strongest ally is practically in the midst of a civil war) against the US? Iran's domestic politics is a mess, as is there economy, they are isolated. I love how there are a lot of simple minded people on this board though that believe no country will have Iran's back, you clearly are not taking every consideration into account You think it will be just a minor bombing campaign... yeah okay, what are you people smoking? Do you think Central and South American countries will back Iran militarily? Seriously? You shouldn't resort to name calling with that kind of argument. Nowhere did I say it would be a simply bombing campaign. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Its the best opportunity they'd have in decades, U.K will have to decide to cut their losses and let them take it if whatever military they have left is concerned with Iran, the U.S is involved against Iran.. who is going to stop them? nobody Guess again....the US and UK obviously can fight more than one war at a time. One nuclear submarine would give the Argentines plenty to worry about, and they are far more deadly than during the Falklands War. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I didnt say it had no allies I am questioning your assumption that these countries would back Iran in a war. Most of the countries you listed are allies with the US but have ties with Iran. Why would they side with Iran (whose strongest ally is practically in the midst of a civil war) against the US? Iran's domestic politics is a mess, as is there economy, they are isolated. http://www.examiner.com/united-nations-in-national/pakistan-iran-afghanistan-enter-into-alliance It doesn't say whether they'd support Iran if the U.S invaded them but they do have an alliance and should not be shrugged off as "well they are our allies too" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/23/afghanistan-pakistan-us-hamid-karzai The Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, has said he would side with Pakistan in the event of war with the US in a surprising political twist that is likely to disconcert his western allies. "If there is war between Pakistan and America, we will stand by Pakistan," Karzai said in a television interview. He put his hand on his heart and described Pakistan as a "brother" country. Afghanistan and U.S ties are not good at all, neither are US Pakistani ties..I see no reason why these countries would not side with their alliance partner Iran Do you think Central and South American countries will back Iran militarily? Seriously? You shouldn't resort to name calling with that kind of argument. Why wouldn't they? South & Central America are Anti American, they realize U.S power is dwindling and this would be the perfect time to strike back ..that is after all they developed their own "bloc" afterall, they wanted some balance on their side http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/us-threatened-by-irans-relationship-with-latin-america WASHINGTON // Iran has moved to substantially increase its diplomatic, trade and military ties to countries in South America, posing a new challenge to US authority in the Western Hemisphere, a group of experts told a joint congressional subcommittee on Tuesday. The westward expansion has helped Iran blunt the effect of US and UN sanctions, several witnesses told members of the House foreign affairs committee. Some said the developments pose a direct security threat to the United States. "By developing close regional ties, Iran has the ability to leapfrog its international isolation, while making common cause with others who have self-identified as opposing the United States and other western nations," said Eric Farnsworth, vice president of the Council of the Americas, who testified at the hearings. "At the very least, these are issues that should be watched with a careful, wary eye." Edited March 7, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Guess again....the US and UK obviously can fight more than one war at a time. One nuclear submarine would give the Argentines plenty to worry about, and they are far more deadly than during the Falklands War. You think the U.S public would agree to fight South America? yeah right!, how much in debt are you? 14 trillion or more?! you can't even afford to go to war with Iran let alone go to war against South America, it's hilarious how you seem to be in denial about how limited you are now The U.K is in the same boat, half their military is gone and they are deeeep in the hole, they can barely afford to fight 1 war let alone 2 The US & UK economies will COLLAPSE Edited March 7, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 You think the U.S public would agree to fight South America? yeah right!, The US is already fighting South America...see DEA! how much in debt are you? 14 trillion or more?! you can't even afford to go to war with Iran let alone go to war against South America, it's hilarious how you seem to be in denial about how limited you are now Like I said before and you never answer...where were you when Saddam needed you? The U.K is in the same boat, half their military is gone and they are deeeep in the hole, they can barely afford to fight 1 war let alone 2 They can afford more than Canada can! The US & UK economies will COLLAPSE So? Been there...done that. Is that all you got? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
j44 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Pakistan's economy would collapse when the US pulled its aid from them which would obviously happen if they sided with Iran in a war. With regard to Afghanistan Karzai says those things for political purposes. He is very weak and at home need to shore up support to appearing to be anti-American. And what kind of military would Karzai have to back Iran? His counrty has 100,000 US troops in it. 'His' security forces are all paid and trained by the US. It is one thing to say US ties with Af/Pak are weak but you don't really think they would side with Iran against the US do you? God, the US and Iran cooperate on some issues that doesn't mean they would back each other in a war against a third party. South and Central America "A perect time to strike back?" They pale in comparison militarily to the US. Even if they combined all of their forces they would be outnumbered and the US 'decline' is overhyped. They are still the military superpower. And of course this is all assuming that these countries have more to gain than to lose. And the US has just as many allies in that region as they do 'enemies.' So Brazil. By far the regions superpower. Does it side with the 'anti-American bloc?' Edited March 7, 2012 by j44 Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 The US is already fighting South America...see DEA! Dumb answer Like I said before and you never answer...where were you when Saddam needed you? Dumb question They can afford more than Canada can! Dumb statement So? Been there...done that. Is that all you got? Really dumb statement Do you have anything worthwhile to add to this discussion? Like how certain are you that a nuclear Pakistan won't side with their buddy Iran? Quote
j44 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) You think the U.S public would agree to fight South America? yeah right!, how much in debt are you? 14 trillion or more?! you can't even afford to go to war with Iran let alone go to war against South America, it's hilarious how you seem to be in denial about how limited you are now The U.K is in the same boat, half their military is gone and they are deeeep in the hole, they can barely afford to fight 1 war let alone 2 The US & UK economies will COLLAPSE I'm starting to think that you are so anti-American that you will take any side and make any argument to side against the US. I have to say that asking if the US public would agree to fight South American is foolish. I can't even imagine Americans taking that question seriously. They would probably even question to use of the word 'fight.' Do you know anything about the economies of these Latin American countries you think would fight and beat the US? You must have an incredibly distorted view of the US position if you think they would be walked over by some Latin American countries. Point to some military number to back up your argument. Edited March 7, 2012 by j44 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 ...Do you have anything worthwhile to add to this discussion? Like how certain are you that a nuclear Pakistan won't side with their buddy Iran? Enough....you clearly have zero understanding of such matters....best you stick to hockey. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Pakistan's economy would collapse when the US pulled its aid from them which would obviously happen if they sided with Iran in a war. Another war would surely collapse the American economy. In fact this war would collapse the world economy so I disagree It is one thing to say US ties with Af/Pak are weak but you don't really think they would side with Iran against the US do you? God, the US and Iran cooperate on some issues that doesn't mean they would back each other in a war against a third party. Afghanistan and the U.S have bitter relations, Pakistan & Afghanistan will come as a package to whatever side ..I don't know, but I can't see them supporting the U.S anymore..too much has went on to damage those relationships, you may disagree though So Brazil. By far the regions superpower. Does it side with the 'anti-American bloc?' Well Brazil is turning away boats with Falkland & British flags (including British Royal Navy ships) and there is this http://en.mercopress.com/2012/02/01/brazil-reiterates-support-for-argentina-denies-any-blockade-to-the-falklands “Our position in support of the legitimate rights of Argentina over the Malvinas Islands sovereignty is historic. They come since the English took over the Islands in 1833: the then Brazilian empire, already independent, supported Argentina’s protest in London”, said Benoni Belli head of the Meridian Americas Desk at the Brazilian Foreign Affairs ministry. Edited March 7, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Do you know anything about the economies of these Latin American countries you think would fight and beat the US? You must have an incredibly distorted view of the US position if you think they would be walked over by some Latin American countries. Point to some military number to back up your argument. The U.S is weak & vulnerable & cannot afford to get bogged down in another multi trillion dollar war Everybody knows this, it's the perfect time to capitalize on it Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 The U.S is weak & vulnerable & cannot afford to get bogged down in another multi trillion dollar war Everybody knows this, it's the perfect time to capitalize on it LOL! Now is your chance..attack the USA and try to steal the Stanely Cup! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 LOL! Now is your chance..attack the USA and try to steal the Stanely Cup! I realize you're old and going to die within 10 years probably but for people who are young and going to be living in this world another 40 + years this is important, it's not something to make jokes about Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 I realize you're old and going to die within 10 years probably but for people who are young and going to be living in this world another 40 + years this is important, it's not something to make jokes about Then why do you post such funny and ridiculous things? I'll bet you think this is the same as the video games "young people" play. Eeeeeek! We're all gonna die? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Then why do you post such funny and ridiculous things? I'll bet you think this is the same as the video games "young people" play. Eeeeeek! We're all gonna die? B.C I know you love war and all, it gets you off, but the crazy thing is most people do not like war and 99 % of the time war is not necessary Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 B.C I know you love war and all, it gets you off, but the crazy thing is most people do not like war and 99 % of the time war is not necessary I don't like war at all, but I don't pretend that it hasn't/ doesn't exist like a naive child. You got nothing on "old people" like me, who lived through a lot more scary crap than you ever experienced or pretend to know: Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 I don't like war at all, but I don't pretend that it hasn't/ doesn't exist like a naive child. You got nothing on "old people" like me, who lived through a lot more scary crap than you ever experienced or pretend to know: Just because you lived through "Scary commie crap" doesn't mean a thing! The world right now is more dangerous than it ever was during the height of the cold war Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Just because you lived through "Scary commie crap" doesn't mean a thing! The world right now is more dangerous than it ever was during the height of the cold war Bullpuckey! You have no idea....and never will. Kids! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
j44 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Ummmm I dont think I said that a war wouldnt be terrible for the US and the world economy but I'm not really sure what you are disagreeing about with my Us/Pak aid comment. You don't agree that they would pull the aid? MILITARY aid to an apparent enemy in a war? And while I'm on the subject you do admit the war would be terrible for the world economy but you see dozens and dozens of countries lining up with Iran against the US even though they would know full well that their economies and the world's would be severely damaged? So are you saying these countries would throw their national interest out the window to side with Iran against the world's stronger military? People have been saying for years that Pak will ditch the US. Let me ask you this. Pak allows the US to launch drone and CIA raids onto it's territory. Does this sound like a country that would toss the US partnership out the window? Yes they have a strained relationship but you are making a big jump from that to all out war. Pakistan can't even fend of the Pak Taliban without US support. They would be overun in Islamabad if the US stopped providing assistance. So again, would the Pakistanis throw out their own survival as a regime to side with Iran (SHIA Iran I might add)? Oh well. I see how Brazils turning away boats is the same thing as fighting a war against the US. Quote
j44 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 The U.S is weak & vulnerable & cannot afford to get bogged down in another multi trillion dollar war Everybody knows this, it's the perfect time to capitalize on it So the US can't afford war but Central and South American countries can? You mean the almighty strong anti-US economies like Venezuela? Bolivia? Ecuador? Just because you lived through "Scary commie crap" doesn't mean a thing! The world right now is more dangerous than it ever was during the height of the cold war This just tells me how distorted your view of the world is. Quote
dre Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 You are right I don't know what will happen. My point is that it is a mistake to just assume they are going to war. se if they will just stumble into it without calculating carefully or by disregarding the consequences. The talk here seemed to not only assume that but to jump to boots on the ground, occupation and World War 3. And again to my point I don't see a punch in the face yet or on the horizon. I never said anything about world war three. I said it could easily escalate into a ground war if Iran retaliates, and maybe a regional conflict that will pulls in western powers. But like I said you dont know what will happen, I dont know, and the generals and politicians know jack shit as well. At best its a roll of the dice that might make things better or worse, or neither. If we drop bombs on another country without provocation then we are clearly trying to start a war, and we put our own interests at risk. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
j44 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 I never said anything about world war three. I said it could easily escalate into a ground war if Iran retaliates, and maybe a regional conflict that will pulls in western powers. But like I said you dont know what will happen, I dont know, and the generals and politicians know jack shit as well. At best its a roll of the dice that might make things better or worse, or neither. If we drop bombs on another country without provocation then we are clearly trying to start a war, and we put our own interests at risk. The WW3 comment to more directed to the thread in general not to you. I agree we don't know what will happen I just felt the thread was going from one worst case assumption to another to another and so forth. I'd also like to point out that I'm against any strike. I think the consequences of even a so-called limited strike could be far worse than Iran having the ability to make a bomb. Although I'm of the mindset that they act rationally in their foreign policy and their rhetoric is just to shore up their domestic support and anti-western/Israeli support in the region. Quote
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