Alberta Election 2012

[fellowtraveller]

Then why does she says she's pro-choice?

to get elected. Duh.

[Newfoundlander]

to get elected. Duh.

Well that'd be pretty dumb seeing there is still a number of prolifers around.

[fellowtraveller]

Well that'd be pretty dumb seeing there is still a number of prolifers around.

You must be new to this politics game.

What is really, really dumb is getting this topic on the agenda at all.

Smith does not come out and say she is prochoice, that would be idiotic given it would get her absolutley zero votes amongst the social cons, because she already has all the social cons in AB as the basis of her own party. It would also be untrue, given her background and previous statements and the polciy of her party until the last few minutes when they realized the very thin ice they were on.

Abortion rights are a really polarizing issue, and Smith can ill afford to alienate anybody in the social middle because..... this is the only area where she can possibly mine new votes.

Danielle wants this to go bye-bye for a long time.

It is more Eastern perception bullshit anyway, people in AB are the same as they are elsewhere: the majority support the right of women to choose. Harper knows it, and has kept his head firmly down on this. Smith is trying to do that now too, no joy anywhere by speaking on either side.

[Newfoundlander]

You must be new to this politics game.

What is really, really dumb is getting this topic on the agenda at all.

Smith does not come out and say she is prochoice, that would be idiotic given it would get her absolutley zero votes amongst the social cons, because she already has all the social cons in AB as the basis of her own party. It would also be untrue, given her background and previous statements and the polciy of her party until the last few minutes when they realized the very thin ice they were on.

Abortion rights are a really polarizing issue, and Smith can ill afford to alienate anybody in the social middle because..... this is the only area where she can possibly mine new votes.

Danielle wants this to go bye-bye for a long time.

It is more Eastern perception bullshit anyway, people in AB are the same as they are elsewhere: the majority support the right of women to choose. Harper knows it, and has kept his head firmly down on this. Smith is trying to do that now too, no joy anywhere by speaking on either side.

Smith openly says she's pro-choice and she has managed to create a party with a large social conservative faction. As well Harper is pro-life and has won a majority government. If he can be pro-life and win over voters I don't see why Smith couldn't admit to being pro-life if she was.

[madmax]

Yeah, idiots and political losers trumpet that tired old tune all the time. In reality, people like what they have in AB. That's why they come from all over the world to get it. Duh.

Next idiot ccmment: if the 50% who don't vote went to the polls, they'd all vote NDP or Liberal.

If voter turnout increases this election , it will be to toss out the PCs. The 50% that don't vote... don't vote.. I think that is pretty clear. You can allocate them to whatever political party dream you wish.

When voter turnout drops its because Politicians and governments no longer connect to the public. Many governments of the past governed and people liked and were happy with them. They also voted in numbers above 50%. Often in the 65% range and above.

The PCs are in trouble.. I expect them to be reduced to an opposition party facing a Majority government. I also expect them to fade away...as has happened to every party to govern in Alberta.

You sound like a disgruntled PC.

[madmax]

:angry:

It is more Eastern perception bullshit anyway, people in AB are the same as they are elsewhere: the majority support the right of women to choose. Harper knows it, and has kept his head firmly down on this. Smith is trying to do that now too, no joy anywhere by speaking on either side.

How is it Eastern Bullshit considering a WR staffer put the issue out there. It was a bad move.. and I agree with all your analysis to this point.. I just don't see the Eastern Connection.

Perhaps its because the Pro Life in other provinces choose the Family Coalition, and Christian Heritage parties cause they long ago realized the PCs and Conservatives will never advance their cause but play games with it.

[Newfoundlander]

If voter turnout increases this election , it will be to toss out the PCs. The 50% that don't vote... don't vote.. I think that is pretty clear. You can allocate them to whatever political party dream you wish.

When voter turnout drops its because Politicians and governments no longer connect to the public. Many governments of the past governed and people liked and were happy with them. They also voted in numbers above 50%. Often in the 65% range and above.

The PCs are in trouble.. I expect them to be reduced to an opposition party facing a Majority government. I also expect them to fade away...as has happened to every party to govern in Alberta.

You sound like a disgruntled PC.

Just because people didn't vote last time don't mean they were dissatisfied with the government, and if they do turn out this time it doesn't necessarily mean it's because they want the PC Party gone. The Progressive Conservatives dominated the polls in 2008 and were set to win a majority government. rightly or wrongly this makes people feel like their vote doesn't count and that the results are in the bag, but it doesn't mean those not voting disagree with the government.

Danny Williams and his government's approval ratings were in the 80s going in to the 2007 election and the party had as much as a 60 point lead on the Liberals going into the election, yet we had the worst turnout rate in our history.

[TheNewTeddy]

People don't vote if they think their vote wont matter. The larger the margin of victory, the smaller the turnout, generally. This election should result in a much higher turnout, but I don't see it being above 60

[fellowtraveller]

Smith openly says she's pro-choice and

No, her official party policy has been to hold referendums on the topic. Referendums take years to put together. In the meantime, Wildrose will delist it from public funding, which requires no legislation. Of late, Smith has had nothing to say on the topic because she knows it can hurt her. To get elected, she really needs to attract some centrist votes and beaking off about abortion

Make no mistake, Wildrose is heavily backed by the social conservatioves- and by that I mean the Church groups, ProLifers and hard right- that left the PCs as they became more centrist. They also left the PCs because with the smackdown of Morton(twice) they recognized that their dinosaur thinking had no voice left in Alberta.

Hence, Wildrose Party.

Make no mistake, Smith is a social conservative and she will do what she can to help a notable chunk of her party, which is the ProLife contingent.

[fellowtraveller]

People don't vote if they think their vote wont matter.

People don't vote because they don't give a shit about any of it.

[Newfoundlander]

People don't vote if they think their vote wont matter. The larger the margin of victory, the smaller the turnout, generally. This election should result in a much higher turnout, but I don't see it being above 60

Exactly but it doesn't necessarily mean those not voting are unhappy with the government.

[Newfoundlander]

No, her official party policy has been to hold referendums on the topic. Referendums take years to put together. In the meantime, Wildrose will delist it from public funding, which requires no legislation. Of late, Smith has had nothing to say on the topic because she knows it can hurt her. To get elected, she really needs to attract some centrist votes and beaking off about abortion

Make no mistake, Wildrose is heavily backed by the social conservatioves- and by that I mean the Church groups, ProLifers and hard right- that left the PCs as they became more centrist. They also left the PCs because with the smackdown of Morton(twice) they recognized that their dinosaur thinking had no voice left in Alberta.

Hence, Wildrose Party.

Make no mistake, Smith is a social conservative and she will do what she can to help a notable chunk of her party, which is the ProLife contingent.

Smith has stated before she won the leadership of the Wildrose that she is pro-choice and a supporter of same-sex marriage, there is even an article in the Globe and Mail about it today.

You're making up stuff about the woman because you don't like her party but you have absolutely no facts to support what you're saying.

[TheNewTeddy]

Does not mean they are happy either.

If you don't express your opinion, people won't know what it is.

[fellowtraveller]

Smith has stated before she won the leadership of the Wildrose that she is pro-choice and a supporter of same-sex marriage, there is even an article in the Globe and Mail about it today.

You're making up stuff about the woman because you don't like her party but you have absolutely no facts to support what you're saying.

Then why is her party policy to hold referendums on abortion and in the meantime delist it, which means if you want an aboirtion you pay out of pocket? That sound 'prochoice' to you? Smith knows she MUST get centrist votes or they have no hope, her natural constituency is already full developed. She is not going to get any of the Liberal vote waiting to be plucked.

It is not that I dislike her or her party, it is that unlike you I am acutely aware of what Wildrose is in this province, and how it came to be. It has been repeated here over and over, you can choose to ignore what they are if you wish, but I choose not to. You are hallucinating if you believe that they are anything but very socially conservative, it is the absolute fucking heart of the party. Here, I'll describe them in three words anybody can understand: A Step Backward.

Edited April 11, 2012 by fellowtraveller

[Newfoundlander]

Someone can be pro-choice and still not agree with the government paying for abortions.

[The_Squid]

Someone can be pro-choice and still not agree with the government paying for abortions.

I am for universal Medicare, but gov't shouldn't pay for it..... Lol

[Newfoundlander]

I am for universal Medicare, but gov't shouldn't pay for it..... Lol

Not everyone considers abortions to be a part of Medicare. I'm not opposed to government funding abortions but I can understand why people are. Governments don't fund cosmetic surgery and many people feel having an abortion is your own choice.

[fellowtraveller]

Someone can be pro-choice and still not agree with the government paying for abortions.

Yeah, that tortuous 'logic' BS is one of the little ploys used by ProLifers all the time. By removing the option for abortion because the poor cannot afford one, you effectively eliminate any choice. So you can pretend to be ProChoice, while at the same time removing choice. You may think that is clever or cute, but it is in fact transparent. Fail. Try Again, as I know you will.

Lets cut funding for a medical procedure that will affect only the poor, who are those who can least afford and least manage an unwanted child. Is that what Jesus would want?

[Newfoundlander]

Yeah, that tortuous 'logic' BS is one of the little ploys used by ProLifers all the time. By removing the option for abortion because the poor cannot afford one, you effectively eliminate any choice. So you can pretend to be ProChoice, while at the same time removing choice. You may think that is clever or cute, but it is in fact transparent. Fail. Try Again, as I know you will.

Lets cut funding for a medical procedure that will affect only the poor, who are those who can least afford and least manage an unwanted child. Is that what Jesus would want?

I'll try again? Why don't you try and give some facts to back up your conspiracies?

[fellowtraveller]

I'll try again? Why don't you try and give some facts to back up your conspiracies?

You want me to Google Wildrose opinion and policy on abortion referendums?.

Look it up yourself.

[TheNewTeddy]

Having an abortion is so controversial that even the most pro-choice person must recognize that it's not just a "normal" procedure.

[Newfoundlander]

Having an abortion is so controversial that even the most pro-choice person must recognize that it's not just a "normal" procedure.

Exactly. Just because someone is pro-choice doesn't mean they have the exact same views on the matter. I believe polls have shown that while a majority are pro-choice, most say they would never have an abortion. Some people agree that abortions should be covered by the government, while others feel it should be paid for by the person having the abortion. I don't see how that view makes someone a pro-lifer.

[Newfoundlander]

You want me to Google Wildrose opinion and policy on abortion referendums?.

Look it up yourself.

So the party's view is automatically Danielle Smith's? Members of her party decided they would decide moral issues through referendums, it doesn't make her a liar.

[madmax]

So the party's view is automatically Danielle Smith's? Members of her party decided they would decide moral issues through referendums, it doesn't make her a liar.

I expect women will have to determine if its cheaper to pay or cross Provincial Borders.

[Newfoundlander]

I expect women will have to determine if its cheaper to pay or cross Provincial Borders.

Well it will be up to those women and to men to decide the policy according to Smith.