Guest Peeves Posted February 4, 2012 Report Posted February 4, 2012 It's not a religious thing in the countries where it is practiced. No religion, Islam nor others sanction murder. It's not a condemnation of Islam,Arabs, East Indians, Africans to point out where it comes from, where there are laws specifically for murdering someone you consider to have besmirched, fouled or blackened your honor. ...and so it should be considered here as well. There are differing aspects to an honor killing. That IS recognized most everywhere it is occurring, even here. And that is as it should be, it is different. Surely if the crime is classified as different by some that commit or judge it, , , , the definition or the rubric it falls under needs to be differently named! It's not just another woman killed in her home, not just another case of violence against women or family violence, IT is different and if women are to be considered equally it must be named for what it is. If it meets the test, it's an honor killing. http://www.countercurrents.org/gender-dasgupta210204.htm Short excerpt. " No Honour In Honour Killings By Dr Bhaskar Dasgupta Hindustan Times 21 February, 2004 (truncated, more opinion at link. In almost all the Muslim countries which I mentioned, cases of honour killings are not classified under the usual category of murderous crimes. The Palestinian Authority law allows honour killing. In Pakistan, after Samia’s murder, members of Pakistan’s upper house demanded punishment of the LAWYERS for daring to help her. None of the political establishment condemned the attack and the clergy wanted the lawyers to be put to death for trying to help Samia. Furthermore, the Senate rejected a resolution condemning the honour killings in the country. While Pakistani President Musharraf has repeatedly said strong words against honour killings, no law has yet been passed nor any resolutions in parliament. In other words, nothing has changed. In Jordan, it is even codified in law. Article 340 of the criminal code says, "A husband or a close blood relative who kills a woman caught in a situation highly suspicious of adultery will be totally exempt from sentencing." While article 98 guarantees a lighter sentence for male killers of female relatives who have committed an "act which is illicit in the eyes of the perpetrator." The reaction to attempts to repeal article 340 is interesting, In 2000 the Jordanian parliament had long ‘informed’ discussions, scratched their heads, thought extensively and hard, and after 3 minutes, rejected the proposal. The leading political party, Islamic Action Front, had this to say about it: “It’s an effort to destroy our Islamic, social and family values, by stripping the man from his humanity, not allowing him to get angry when he is surprised by his wife committing adultery”. Go figure. It’s much the same in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt and other countries. Turkey’s laws are going to be changed under pressure from the EU, but I do not hold out much hope for the other countries which are full of these obscurantist religious leaders and madmen in power. Shakespeare said :”Mine honour is my life, both grow in one, Take honour from me, and my life is done.” The problem seems to be in the way men define their honour and take away their women’s life instead." Quote
Topaz Posted February 4, 2012 Report Posted February 4, 2012 A radio station with high Muslim population had a call-in on this topic and there were some who agreed with the killings but there were other Muslims that called in and said that wasn't the thought of ALL Muslims. As the topic ran on, one guy calle din and said he thought if people stole, their hands should be out off! The host said, that was going to far, and if the person stole food because they lost their job, could you blame the person and then also cutting the hands off then the person would be on disability for the rest of their life and so we would be supporting him. Quote
Guest Manny Posted February 4, 2012 Report Posted February 4, 2012 one guy calle din and said he thought if people stole, their hands should be out off! The host said, that was going to far, and if the person stole food because they lost their job, could you blame the person and then also cutting the hands off then the person would be on disability for the rest of their life and so we would be supporting him. Man oh man. We need to encourage them to keep up this kind of dialog... Quote
BC_chick Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Peeves, I take it then that you believe violent hate crimes differ also from other violent crimes? Or does motivation only matter when it's Muslims committing violence? Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Guest Peeves Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Peeves, I take it then that you believe violent hate crimes differ also from other violent crimes? Or does motivation only matter when it's Muslims committing violence? Get off it. You brought up Muslims I didn't, in fact I pointed out that religions do not sanction murder. Quote
BC_chick Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 I take that as a yes? You do believe hate crimes are different than other violent crimes? You brought up Muslims I didn't. Really? I can tell by the sub-title of your thread. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Guest Peeves Posted February 6, 2012 Report Posted February 6, 2012 I take that as a yes? You do believe hate crimes are different than other violent crimes? Really? I can tell by the sub-title of your thread. If you're going to cherry pick and ignore the fact that I was pointing out that some countries accept honor killings as such and treat them differently in both judgment and in sentencing then let's stay on topic. Quote
jbg Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 If you're going to cherry pick and ignore the fact that I was pointing out that some countries accept honor killings as such and treat them differently in both judgment and in sentencing then let's stay on topic. Remember, this is a peaceful religion. I can almost imagine this occurring in an idyllic, snowy scene, to the tune of "Hark the Herald Angels Sing". Truly a religion of "peace on earth goodwill to man (but not women)". Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Guest Peeves Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Remember, this is a peaceful religion. I can almost imagine this occurring in an idyllic, snowy scene, to the tune of "Hark the Herald Angels Sing". Truly a religion of "peace on earth goodwill to man (but not women)". When I hear of the peace of Islam, I am suddenly conscious of a world when they extended their peaceful religion over many other peaceful religions. And it came to pass that the sects of Islam did do unto others before others could do unto them. And still do. Quote
jbg Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 When I hear of the peace of Islam, I am suddenly conscious of a world when they extended their peaceful religion over many other peaceful religions. And it came to pass that the sects of Islam did do unto others before others could do unto them. And still do. I think the appropriate English (if not Canadian) spelling is "pieces", not "peace". Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Guest Peeves Posted February 17, 2012 Report Posted February 17, 2012 I think the appropriate English (if not Canadian) spelling is "pieces", not "peace". Oh as in "I love you to pieces" said Jeffrey Dahmer Maybe apropos. The thing with fundamental Islam-ists is you get a sorta Hobson's choice. You can accept Islam or you're an enemy. Quote
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