NDP Leadership

cybercoma · March 7, 2012

madmax · March 7, 2012

I don't see what makes her more left-wing than Douglas or Lewis, at least on economics.

Tommy Douglas

"He set an example of fiscal restraint (and, ironically, of limited government) that no other Canadian premier approached in the 20th century. In 17 years as premier, he produced 17 balanced budgets. "

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/tommy-douglas-the-pragmatic-socialist/article1806775/?service=mobile

Edited March 7, 2012 by madmax

madmax · March 7, 2012

I question whether Douglas still believed that by the time he was federal NDP leader in the 60s. Even so, by the same token, Douglas/Lewis seemed to advocate a greater role for the government in the economy than anyone advocates today: when does someone like Nash even talk about creating Crown corporations or implementing something like the FIRA?

Agreed.. Douglas and Lewis would be far to the left of many current New Democrats..

TheNewTeddy · March 7, 2012

I question whether Douglas still believed that by the time he was federal NDP leader in the 60s. Even so, by the same token, Douglas/Lewis seemed to advocate a greater role for the government in the economy than anyone advocates today: when does someone like Nash even talk about creating Crown corporations or implementing something like the FIRA?

I didn't get this info from reading any wikipedia article or watching and documentary or reading any books about him. Those would be second and third hand sources. I got this info from watching this

http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/parties_leaders/clips/15755/

The 1968 Federal Debate, where Douglas outlines his position(s)

j44 · March 7, 2012

I didn't get this info from reading any wikipedia article or watching and documentary or reading any books about him. Those would be second and third hand sources. I got this info from watching this

http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/parties_leaders/clips/15755/

The 1968 Federal Debate, where Douglas outlines his position(s)

Man, you watch debates from the 60s? That's so hardcore. I might (MIGHT) watch Kennedy v. Nixon but even that is a stretch.

TheNewTeddy · March 7, 2012

I've never been able to sit though the whole thing, but one of the times I was skipping though the parts, the topic came up, and I was shocked to hear what I did. IIRC it's some time after Caouette joins the debate, and his opinion was rather right-wing.

Newfoundlander · March 7, 2012

Hmmmm...

It is widely assumed that Mulcair, known in party circles for his hot temper and sharp-tongued put-downs, was not the preferred choice of Jack Layton and those closest to him.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Topp+Nash+team+against+Mulcair+managers/6266402/story.html

punked · March 7, 2012

I didn't get this info from reading any wikipedia article or watching and documentary or reading any books about him. Those would be second and third hand sources. I got this info from watching this

http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/parties_leaders/clips/15755/

The 1968 Federal Debate, where Douglas outlines his position(s)

He was just listening to what Canadian doctors were saying at the time. If he was around today his opinion would be different.

TheNewTeddy · March 7, 2012

He was just listening to what Canadian doctors were saying at the time. If he was around today his opinion would be different.

Exactly.

Evening Star · March 8, 2012

I didn't get this info from reading any wikipedia article or watching and documentary or reading any books about him. Those would be second and third hand sources. I got this info from watching this

http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/parties_leaders/clips/15755/

The 1968 Federal Debate, where Douglas outlines his position(s)

I didn't watch the debate but I'll take your word on it. I never thought of Tommy Douglas as a progressive on social/cultural issues at all, in any case. My point was strictly about economic policy and there I do think Douglas and Lewis were much further left than Nash, in any traditional sense where "left" relates to socialism. (I personally tend to think of "left"-"right" in terms of economics and "liberal"-"conservative" is terms of social/cultural issues, like Vote Compass did.)

WWWTT · March 9, 2012

Canadians aren't moving to the Left, but an incremental shift towards the centre makes the NDP more electable and squeezes the Liberals out.

And to say Peggy Nash is a good choice because she's a woman and that means women will vote for her is pretty insulting to female voters. I don't vote for male politicians because they're men and I likewise wouldn't expect female voters to vote for female politicians for no other reason than they are female. If that's the reasoning for selecting her as leader of the party, why not pick Ashton? She's a female and young! Image all the young voters and women that would support the party then. It just doesn't work that way.

Oh ok thats like saying that it would be insulting for black voters in the US to vote for Obama because he is black?

You seem to understand why /how you vote,but have you ever tried to figure out why other people vote?Or do you believe you speak for millions of Canadian voters?I know you don't.

Maybe some voters will vote for their specific candidate because they can relate to that person.Or they may feel that a person from a similar background will see the world in a similar light.

Do you know why Ignatieff failed so miserably?And why Harper right now is in a precarious position?

Think buddy,think!

WWWTT

WWWTT · March 9, 2012

Supposedly women don't like voting for women.

Ya and people of African descent don't like voting for Obama

WWWTT

Newfoundlander · March 9, 2012

Ya and people of African descent don't like voting for Obama

WWWTT

Oh, don't they?

cybercoma · March 9, 2012

Oh ok thats like saying that it would be insulting for black voters in the US to vote for Obama because he is black?

WWWTT

It wouldn't be insulting for black voters to vote for Obama because he's black. If that's their choice, then that's up to them. However, it is insulting for you to suggest that this is why black voters as a group would vote for Obama. Black voters don't always vote for the Dems, but many of them do, regardless of whether the person running is black or not. I would like to think more goes into their decision than the skin colour of a candidate, since that would in fact be just as racist as not voting for Obama because he's black. It says that black people didn't vote for McCain because he's white. Edited March 9, 2012 by cybercoma

TheNewTeddy · March 9, 2012

I didn't watch the debate but I'll take your word on it. I never thought of Tommy Douglas as a progressive on social/cultural issues at all, in any case. My point was strictly about economic policy and there I do think Douglas and Lewis were much further left than Nash, in any traditional sense where "left" relates to socialism. (I personally tend to think of "left"-"right" in terms of economics and "liberal"-"conservative" is terms of social/cultural issues, like Vote Compass did.)

It's all due to the time. Remember that Douglas was against Trudeau, and that Stanfield's policies could be considered moderate NDP today, even Caouette was not as right-wing as Harper, yet, the polls reflected the desire for this kind of left politics.

j44 · March 9, 2012

I don't know how fitting it is comparing women voting for Nash to African Americans voting for Obama. Obama broke ground in the sense that he was the first AA to have a chance to sit in the White House. If Nash was the first ever woman to lead a major party or be PM I could see women voting for her for that reason but not now after decades and decades of women holding office.

Evening Star · March 9, 2012

It's all due to the time. Remember that Douglas was against Trudeau, and that Stanfield's policies could be considered moderate NDP today, even Caouette was not as right-wing as Harper, yet, the polls reflected the desire for this kind of left politics.

Yes, this was exactly my point! In the same way that Peggy Nash is much more socially liberal than Tommy Douglas, she's also well to his right on economic issues! As such, I don't know what the basis is for saying she would be one of the most left-wing NDP leaders ever.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Evening Star

Newfoundlander · March 9, 2012

I don't know how fitting it is comparing women voting for Nash to African Americans voting for Obama. Obama broke ground in the sense that he was the first AA to have a chance to sit in the White House. If Nash was the first ever woman to lead a major party or be PM I could see women voting for her for that reason but not now after decades and decades of women holding office.

African American's already voted in huge numbers for the Democrates before Obama.

Someone who worked for Kim Campbell, who was Canada's first female PM, spoke at an event I was at and said that polling showed women did not vote for women. I see a lot more women who are critical of Kathy Dunderdale than men.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Newfoundlander

j44 · March 9, 2012

African American's already voted in huge numbers for the Democrates before Obama.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that him being on the Presidential ballot meant nothing.

Newfoundlander · March 9, 2012

Yes, but that doesn't mean that him being on the Presidential ballot meant nothing.

I know.

WWWTT · March 9, 2012

It wouldn't be insulting for black voters to vote for Obama because he's black. If that's their choice, then that's up to them. However, it is insulting for you to suggest that this is why black voters as a group would vote for Obama. Black voters don't always vote for the Dems, but many of them do, regardless of whether the person running is black or not. I would like to think more goes into their decision than the skin colour of a candidate, since that would in fact be just as racist as not voting for Obama because he's black. It says that black people didn't vote for McCain because he's white.

You are totaly ignoring the plight that many women and minorities are going through!And somehow you are suggesting that it is insulting of me to suggest that a minority would vote for another minority for the sole fact that they are a minority?!!?!?

That in itself is a racist comment you are making buddy and you should be banned!

If those that are affected by racism decide to vote for a minority because they may feel that a politician whom is a visible minority will help further the rights of minorities then all the power to them.Aswell I will and always have encouraged voters to vote for minorities to help minorities!

Womans rights has always bein the crown jewel in the NDP's platform and this should never be abondoned!

And this is why we need Peggy Nash right now.

WWWTT

Newfoundlander · March 9, 2012

Women's rights and equality until it comes to winning.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Newfoundlander

cybercoma · March 9, 2012

You are totaly ignoring the plight that many women and minorities are going through!

[...]

Womans rights has always bein the crown jewel in the NDP's platform and this should never be abondoned!

And this is why we need Peggy Nash right now.

WWWTT

You're making two very big assumptions here.

1) A minority is going to fix all of the problems his/her minority group faces by becoming party leader.

2) That people who are not from that minority group will not and cannot be sensitive to minority issues.

Peggy Nash is not the ideal candidate for the NDP for all the reasons I've already gone through. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean that she address women's issues any better than any of the male candidates or even at all. Since you're the one that brought up African-Americans voting for Barack Obama, what exactly has he done for them since taking office? The answer is not much.

cybercoma · March 9, 2012

Women's rights and equality until it comes to winning.

Please. There needs to be more women in Parliament and the various provincial legislatures. Alexa McDonough was leader of the NDP. Just because Peggy Nash won't make an ideal leader at this point in time doesn't mean that I'm against women's equality. Why not make the same argument about Niki Ashton?

Newfoundlander · March 9, 2012

Please. There needs to be more women in Parliament and the various provincial legislatures. Alexa McDonough was leader of the NDP. Just because Peggy Nash won't make an ideal leader at this point in time doesn't mean that I'm against women's equality. Why not make the same argument about Niki Ashton?

I never said anything about you, I'm just talking about the NDP in general.